Car Doesn't Start
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,540
Likes: 0
From: bloomfield nj
the 12 volts to fire the starter solenoid comes from the theft relay,the relay has 12 volts on 1 side from the ignition switch,the bcm grounds another leg of the relay,the 12 volts for the relay coil comes from the clutch switch when you step on it[it's fused],when the coil circuit is complete it switches the 12 volts from the ignition switch to the other side of the relay then out to the starter. do you have any faults?
are you sure your looking at the right clutch switch,there are 2.1 dedicated to cruise,the other for starting.could be a bad relay/clutch switch/bcm/or a flat spot in the starter armature. i will help you further if you need it.you can do all the checks pretty much at the relay before you climb under the car.[if you use a fused jumper,you can jump the relay out and if the car starts,the problem is inside the car,be it clutch switch/relay/bcm/etc.]
are you sure your looking at the right clutch switch,there are 2.1 dedicated to cruise,the other for starting.could be a bad relay/clutch switch/bcm/or a flat spot in the starter armature. i will help you further if you need it.you can do all the checks pretty much at the relay before you climb under the car.[if you use a fused jumper,you can jump the relay out and if the car starts,the problem is inside the car,be it clutch switch/relay/bcm/etc.]
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Rob
In the passengers foot well, behind the removable toe board, you will find a relay. Look above the silver box (BCM) on the fire wall. You will see two relays. There is one with four wires. The wire colors are RED, PURPLE, Yellow and Yellow/black stripe. That is your theft deterrant relay. They are inexpensive and do go bad. If you just want to check the operation of the relay, you can remove the plastic cover and watch it. It is in the starter safety circuit. When the BCM receives all of the correct security information, it allows the relay to energize. If you push the contacts, the starter will engage. *WARNING* make sure that the brake is set and the trans in in neutral!!!!!!!
There are other componets in the circuit that could cause the starter to not start.
In the passengers foot well, behind the removable toe board, you will find a relay. Look above the silver box (BCM) on the fire wall. You will see two relays. There is one with four wires. The wire colors are RED, PURPLE, Yellow and Yellow/black stripe. That is your theft deterrant relay. They are inexpensive and do go bad. If you just want to check the operation of the relay, you can remove the plastic cover and watch it. It is in the starter safety circuit. When the BCM receives all of the correct security information, it allows the relay to energize. If you push the contacts, the starter will engage. *WARNING* make sure that the brake is set and the trans in in neutral!!!!!!!
There are other componets in the circuit that could cause the starter to not start.
1st Gear
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
My car has this exact same problem. About 1 in 20 attempts to start the car, it does not start. It does not click, turn the engine over, nothing. All I can hear is the fuel pump running. With the key in the 'ACC' position, everything appears normal. No codes in the computer. If I roll the car down a hill and pop the cluch, the car starts right up. After this, the car starts normally for another dozen times until it does it again. Very frustrating.
My car is a 2002. This problem happened to me after changing the battery. Battery voltage is good.
'bobgodd', did you ever figure out your problem?
My car is a 2002. This problem happened to me after changing the battery. Battery voltage is good.
'bobgodd', did you ever figure out your problem?
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
From: Raleigh NC
Close to a Solution I hope
Jim,
My problem sounds exactly like yours and bob's. I've replaced just about everything and C4C5 has recommended it may be the starter enable relay in the footwell, he's heard of these going bad. The only thing left after that is the starter. Others have heard of flakey starters starting intermittently. Same here, no codes, happens intermittently, have replaced battery, key with pellet, ignition, clutch safety switch. So hopefully im at the end of the list.
Ed
My problem sounds exactly like yours and bob's. I've replaced just about everything and C4C5 has recommended it may be the starter enable relay in the footwell, he's heard of these going bad. The only thing left after that is the starter. Others have heard of flakey starters starting intermittently. Same here, no codes, happens intermittently, have replaced battery, key with pellet, ignition, clutch safety switch. So hopefully im at the end of the list.
Ed
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,824
Likes: 1
From: Middleboro Massachusetts
Originally Posted by 82shark
Jim,
My problem sounds exactly like yours and bob's. I've replaced just about everything and C4C5 has recommended it may be the starter enable relay in the footwell, he's heard of these going bad. The only thing left after that is the starter. Others have heard of flakey starters starting intermittently. Same here, no codes, happens intermittently, have replaced battery, key with pellet, ignition, clutch safety switch. So hopefully im at the end of the list.
Ed
My problem sounds exactly like yours and bob's. I've replaced just about everything and C4C5 has recommended it may be the starter enable relay in the footwell, he's heard of these going bad. The only thing left after that is the starter. Others have heard of flakey starters starting intermittently. Same here, no codes, happens intermittently, have replaced battery, key with pellet, ignition, clutch safety switch. So hopefully im at the end of the list.
Ed
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 257
Likes: 0
From: San Diego CA
sorry for the late response gents, school schedule is hellish. but yes, that relay is what fixed the problem. Mr. Bill Curlee and i had a phone convo or two, and he led me through the troubleshooting steps to find out that it (relay) was what was wrong. it was kinda hard to get to, especially if you have big hands, but not impossible. the price was 30 dollars from a dealership (could not find it at any autoparts stores) not too bad for a car that starts all the time in my opinion.
thanks everyone for their help. hope you guys get it figured out soon.
ROB
thanks everyone for their help. hope you guys get it figured out soon.
ROB
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Pro
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 528
Likes: 5
From: Templeton Ca
wont start
Hey did you ever figure it out ? , I bypassed my ignition VATs with a resistor , worked for awhile then a week later it wouldnt start right off. took about 30 min befor it would start . Any advise would be appreciated .
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 257
Likes: 0
From: San Diego CA
Originally Posted by bobgodd
sorry for the late response gents, school schedule is hellish. but yes, that relay is what fixed the problem. Mr. Bill Curlee and i had a phone convo or two, and he led me through the troubleshooting steps to find out that it (relay) was what was wrong. it was kinda hard to get to, especially if you have big hands, but not impossible. the price was 30 dollars from a dealership (could not find it at any autoparts stores) not too bad for a car that starts all the time in my opinion.
thanks everyone for their help. hope you guys get it figured out soon.
ROB
thanks everyone for their help. hope you guys get it figured out soon.
ROB
the car....still....does it. its agrivating as hell, ive had to hotwire it a few times because it would just not start, other times it will not start, then i try a few min later and then it works..
not to mention, sometimes, my windshield wipers just decide to start running on their own.. but thats a whole 'nother level of hatred for this car.
as for the last post, was that for me, or the guy above you?
cuz my answer is no, lol.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,540
Likes: 0
From: bloomfield nj
Originally Posted by bobgodd
well i was just gonna learn to live with it but since someone brought the thread back, i figured i'd post...
the car....still....does it. its agrivating as hell, ive had to hotwire it a few times because it would just not start, other times it will not start, then i try a few min later and then it works..
not to mention, sometimes, my windshield wipers just decide to start running on their own.. but thats a whole 'nother level of hatred for this car.
as for the last post, was that for me, or the guy above you?
cuz my answer is no, lol.
the car....still....does it. its agrivating as hell, ive had to hotwire it a few times because it would just not start, other times it will not start, then i try a few min later and then it works..
not to mention, sometimes, my windshield wipers just decide to start running on their own.. but thats a whole 'nother level of hatred for this car.
as for the last post, was that for me, or the guy above you?
cuz my answer is no, lol.
when you say you "hotwire it",are you jumping out the theft relay? there's a reason i'm asking.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,540
Likes: 0
From: bloomfield nj
Originally Posted by bobgodd
i am taking out that relay, and running a paper clip from the "starter" to the "hot"
sounds like your problem is in the column.most likely a ignition switch.
if you can start this car by jumping the relay everything foward of the relay is fine[starter solenoid wire].so that eliminates the fuse and under the hood.the bcm provides the ground for the relay[after it reads the key].regardless if you have a stick or auto power to the relay solenoid comes from the ignition switch through the clutch switch or nuetral safety switch from the crk fuse that gets fed from the ignition switch.
the next time the car doesn't start,grab a test light and see if you have power on the yellow wire[pin # C2, may also be marked 30],if you don't have power you have a bad ignition switch[i think you already did the clutch switch or pnp by now].other possibilities are a intermitant break in either the yellow wie to the fuse or the purple wire going to the pnp or clutch switch,but you probably have a better chance of seeing god.
the wipers are probably a bad stalk.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 257
Likes: 0
From: San Diego CA
where is this yellow wire you speak of? cuz i have a strange little occurance that i asked about and nobody seemed to have an answer for me... check out these pics..
http://www.bobgodd.com/wire%20pics/
these are pics of the BCM and the surrounding area. i have no idear what this wire is for or what it does, but it hasnt been connected to anything since ive had the car.
http://www.bobgodd.com/wire%20pics/
these are pics of the BCM and the surrounding area. i have no idear what this wire is for or what it does, but it hasnt been connected to anything since ive had the car.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,540
Likes: 0
From: bloomfield nj
you have a aftermarket alarm? are you sure that's not the yellow wire that goes to the theft relay? the relay is up above the bcm to the left.it should have 4 wires.yel/blk[grd],red[+],yellow[+ when cranking],purp[+ to starter].what is the creative wiring?
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 257
Likes: 0
From: San Diego CA
i have no idea what its for, thats why i asked.
and i have no way to trace it because i cant find any wiring diagrams anywhere. if i had a diagram i could at least do a point to point.
oh and no on the aftermarket alarm.
and i dont think it goes to the relay, because thats the one i jump all the time and everything looks in order there.
and i have no way to trace it because i cant find any wiring diagrams anywhere. if i had a diagram i could at least do a point to point.
oh and no on the aftermarket alarm.
and i dont think it goes to the relay, because thats the one i jump all the time and everything looks in order there.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,540
Likes: 0
From: bloomfield nj
first,what is the creative wiring??? did you do it? if so,what is it.i'm not being nosey i just want to know what's tapped in.if you have a stick that yellow wire is from the clutch switch.if you have a auto it's from the park/nuetral switch,if that is the yellow wire to the theft relay.look at the relay connector.it will be looking dead at you.see if the yellow wire has ever been cut or tapped in to.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,540
Likes: 0
From: bloomfield nj
Originally Posted by bobgodd
what are you refering to when you say creative wiring?
everything as you see it is exactly as it is when i bought it, i havent done a thing to the car.
everything as you see it is exactly as it is when i bought it, i havent done a thing to the car.
if you look at your pictures you will see what looks like a white wire and a red wire scotch locked[blue squeeze connector] with another one right behind it. what is this for.if you don' know,find out before we go any further here.this car may have a aftermarket alarm in it that you didn't know you had.if it's not a alarm,it's something. if you are indeed using the yellow wire in the relay,you must be stepping on the clutch for it to crank,if you aren't than something is very wrong,but eliminates the ignition switch as the culprit.for ha-ha's look at the ignition switch connector and see if that has been creatively wired.