No, it is out of the box vs. out of the box


Two items that held back the b/w - the useage of the stock bridge, and the keeping of the mass air sensor in the factory location.

By design, the Honker came up w/ a "better mousetrap" and obviously (with the C6) the GM Engineers found reason enough to do the same a year after its introduction with the 2005 Corvette (relo. of MAF sens.)

I hope this helps

 

From what I've read here in this forum, very few non-Z06 owners have ever had problems with a Blackwing or Halltech Stinger. I'm guessing your setup had other issues, like an air leak or two. Z06's tend to throw lean codes after an aftermarket intake is installed unless a dyno-tune is performed to adjust for the extra air flow.

 

its all in the tuning....I hear it is a beotch to get the car right with a BW in a box....

 

Was that a Blackwing they were testing against?

 

I have no problems with it and my tune.

 

Yes, it was indeed a blackwing that made that much LESS power than the Honker

 

Did it say that in the article (I couldn't read it very well) or do you know that personally?

 

I'm still interested in an answer here because I have a Blackwing and I'm not opposed to changing it if there is something a lot better. Are you sure it was a Blackwing because I finally downloaded the article and was able to read it but it never mentioned a brand.

Anyway, to make it apples to apples, you'd have to use the hood open 408 hp figure on the before version (baseline) since that would be more real world. Using HP Tuners I can see that my IAT goes to partically to ambient with a Blackwing and the air coming in the Z06 screens once I start moving. With the hood closed - obviously it would be breathing engine air causing the lower hp number. The other 11 hp must have come from the better air bridge and MAF relocation as you stated. I've never understood how much the MAF relocation adds. I have an aftermarket power duct so no stock air bridge is involved and I can easily see where I could move my MAF to the same location with one more piece of rubber.

The article also mentions that they only picked up 16 hp over the stock air box on a C6 so I wonder how much of that is better system (air box, cold air and ducting) and how much is MAF relocation.

Also, I've asked this question before in othere posts and never got an answer - everybody with a Honker is raving about how GM copied the Honker's MAF location design on the C6. My 02 F-bodys had it in the same spot (just in front of the throttle body). There is not a space issue so GM could have located it either place in the many years of the C5 so the question is - They could have put it either place, why did they put it where they did? Anybody know?

Since I already have the Blackwing setup, I can't see ditching it for a few hp (at $499) but it would definitely be worth considering if I was doing it all over from stock.

 

I've had the BlackWing for about 2 years. I opened up the fog lights to allow cold air in the engine bay. I've had no problems with surging, pinging, or any problem with codes. I'm happy with mine.

 

I've had the Blackwing installed now for about a week with no issues. I did reset the PCM after the install.

 

I was at the C5/C6 gathering at the NCM last spring, when the author came forward with the article proof - He walked right to the Callaway Cars booth to show them the article before it was printed in Vette Magazine

He said he was quite impressed witht he results and it was interesting that a third party did the testing

I hope that helps

 

Hi Nithros

Your quest seems clear, I agree with all the points you are mentioning to obtain the best of an intake.

Let me summarize what I found through my set up which is :
- Blackwing air filter
- Icebox
- Insulation
- SD tune (mafless)

- with the Blackwing, a high flow air filter with a great ability of filtration
- with the Icebox the possibility to breath the air from the outside and to match exactly the outside temp when moving (IAT #)
- with the insulation the possibility to keep my IAT in a very low (but very low) range in stop and go traffic
- having the MAF disconnected is a HUGE improvement with my set up, not sure about peak power, but from the best tune and best set up I had before some tenth are won in acceleration, specially at high speed (always HPTuner monitered)

For sure a Honker is optimum straight of the box, the principal is pretty close of what I am using NOW (bottom breather, high flow air filter, MAF relocated), not convinced that technically it is better that my actual set up, I did not monitered this one.
Keep in mind that other brands are also on the market since a while as bottom breather, some are may be different that some others.
On the other hand the Vararam is another intake that will give you also the possibility to grab the air from the outside, some user say it is the best, a lot of debate on the subject on this forum, you can use the search button, and make your own opinion.

To understand a little more about the MAF and the why it is located there (or not there anymore!!) and what are the consequences, take a look on LS1TECH.com forum in the section PCM Diagnostics and Tuning, stickys are informative.

Hope this will help you to make your best choice, everyone is looking for something particular, I found my balance with this intake set up, totally satisfied with the numbers I am achieving, let me know about your quest results......

Christian

 

Thanks *89x2* and miami993c297 for the information!

 

I have a blackwing, and it ran wide open fine, but it had surging issues at idle and on the cruise control on highways. Later I found the previous owner had cut the shroud to let cool air in. Here's my theory, that at stop lights it would go from hot air to cold air and back to hot too quick and not be able to adjust. So, Im trying the Icebox to attempt to make it all cool outside air. Anythoughts on if this is going to make things perfect?
Ed

 

A Blackwing alone will be prone to surging because it has more square inches of surface than the stock system, the cold/warm air from ambient and engine heat are the culprit. This is true with any replacement system using an enclosed filter. Many times you cannot feel it inside a car but if you are using a scanner, you can see the effects. The other choices are the Vararam type and IceBox/Honker type. In these system they use ambient air and separate the engine heat from the intake. The Veraram is good for drag racing and moderately modded engines. Its limitation is the square inces of accessible air through the front openings. When GM was researching for the C5R and the C6R they looked at all possible intakes. They settled for the bottom breather types w/extracter hoods because it made the most consistent HP, better airflow in drafting/passing and manageable AIT. The Honker and IceBox are modeled after that system and have larger square inches of air intake. In a stock engine both systems should perform very closely. The major difference is in the ability to properly tune the engine. By the way, the C5R and C6R use MAF because they feel it is more reliable than SD tuning and the OBD III care are said to be tested without the SD tables. FWIW

 

That being said, I am NOT spending anywhere from $75-$200 on a PLASTIC BOX!!!

Has anybody fabbed one on their own?

 

 

When speaking of the Vararam and the "accessible air through the front openings", are you referring to the bumper area or the Vararam air box/filter. You must be talking about the air box/filter since the front opening square inch total is way bigger than the throttle body and I thought I read somewhere that the air never exceeds 60mph in air speed going through the throttle body. I may be wrong on that but I don't see how the Vararam can fail to feed or be a restriction to even a highly modified motor.

As far as the IceBox goes, I wouldn't include it in the same category as the Honker or Vararam since it does not seal to the opening in the shroud - thus allowing hot engine air in when sitting at a light, in traffic or in the staging lanes at the strip.