Cam installation disaster. Advice please.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 517
Likes: 0
From: Arlington Texas
Cam installation disaster. Advice please.
Yes, I dropped a lifter down onto the windage tray. Let's not spend time going over what I did wrong. Suffice to say I thought I had preventive measures in place, but obviously didn't do things correctly.
Is there any way I can retrieve the thing? Is now the time to flatbed it to a local tuner? Thanks.
Is there any way I can retrieve the thing? Is now the time to flatbed it to a local tuner? Thanks.
Supporting Tuner
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 51,896
Likes: 39
From: ================== Houston, Texas www.englandgreen.com ================== Necessary Evil™ __________
CI 6-7-8-9-10 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14
Originally Posted by Jim Taylor
Yes, I dropped a lifter down onto the windage tray. Let's not spend time going over what I did wrong. Suffice to say I thought I had preventive measures in place, but obviously didn't do things correctly.
Is there any way I can retrieve the thing? Is now the time to flatbed it to a local tuner? Thanks.
Is there any way I can retrieve the thing? Is now the time to flatbed it to a local tuner? Thanks.
If all else fails, drop the cradle and pull off the oilpan.
Good luck and next time buy a fibreglass 5/16th driveway marker rod from Home Depot - perfect fit for the lifter valley holes.
EG
Racer
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 300
Likes: 0
From: miami florida
this is exactly what happened in my camaro ss when i did a cam swap..damn man, that is just bad luck.
look, first find out which side the lifter belongs to and you might as well start removing your ls6 intake and fish it out through the valley pan cover. dont waste your time with the oil pan. i did this and it was freaking stupid.
also, start removing the head to which the lifter belongs to.
Go buy a new head gasket and you must buy brand new head bolts as well since the only way to put the lifter back is by removing the head that lost it.
sorry to tell you this, but you got alot of work ahead of you. pm me if you need more help.
look, first find out which side the lifter belongs to and you might as well start removing your ls6 intake and fish it out through the valley pan cover. dont waste your time with the oil pan. i did this and it was freaking stupid.
also, start removing the head to which the lifter belongs to.
Go buy a new head gasket and you must buy brand new head bolts as well since the only way to put the lifter back is by removing the head that lost it.
sorry to tell you this, but you got alot of work ahead of you. pm me if you need more help.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 517
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From: Arlington Texas
I'm not excited about unbolting/jacking up the motor. I don't want to go from bad to worse! Is it possible to fish it out from the top by removing the valley cover? I'll give it a try.
I was sick and embarrased when I first posted, and I just didn't want to go into what I did wrong. I used wooden dowels through the oil channel to hold the lifters up, but it didn't work. I'm not sure what I did wrong, but I'll find out once the head is off and I can see in there.
Shane, why don't you come over to Arlington and help get me out of this mess
I was sick and embarrased when I first posted, and I just didn't want to go into what I did wrong. I used wooden dowels through the oil channel to hold the lifters up, but it didn't work. I'm not sure what I did wrong, but I'll find out once the head is off and I can see in there.
Shane, why don't you come over to Arlington and help get me out of this mess
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
Originally Posted by Jim Taylor
I'm not excited about unbolting/jacking up the motor. I don't want to go from bad to worse! Is it possible to fish it out from the top by removing the valley cover? I'll give it a try.
I also would like to hear (once you calm down) how this happened, especially if you followed the methods typically practiced. I know I looked at my rods installed with a boroscope, and they won't prevent them from falling and hitting the cam, falling further appears to be a crap shoot.
Drifting
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,715
Likes: 1
From: cAshburn VA
Last person I remember posting this problem successfully fished it out from the front of the oil pan. If you haven't already removed the crank sprocket and oil pump, now is the time. I would get two telescopic magenetic pick up tools and go fishing.
We really should have a community boroscope to lend out in this situation. What about it CF vendors, a little help for the little guys?
Good hunting! (or fishing as it were)
We really should have a community boroscope to lend out in this situation. What about it CF vendors, a little help for the little guys?
Good hunting! (or fishing as it were)
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Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 517
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From: Arlington Texas
The cam is out, and the lifter is all the way down. I assume it's sitting on the windage tray. I'm going out to remove the head since it has to be off anyway to replace the lifter. I'll repost with what went wrong with the dowels holding the lifters in place.
Intermediate
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: Auburn CA
Hey, I did the same thing. Here's how I solved it. Can not access the tappet by removing intake, etc.
What I did is not going to sound easy but it worked. I pulled the oil pan off and the oil splash shield. pulled the Tappet out. Rotated the crank until i could get clear shot at the tappet whole. Here's the creative part. You need to place a magnet down from the top where the push rod whole is connect the tappet to the magnet. Then gently pull it up while guiding it from the bottom-- this is a two man job.
Removing the pan required that I drop the front engine carrier/a frame. Support the engine by placing supports under the mounts after moving the carrier/a frame support.
This probably added 4 hours plus pan gasket to the job. Good luck!
What I did is not going to sound easy but it worked. I pulled the oil pan off and the oil splash shield. pulled the Tappet out. Rotated the crank until i could get clear shot at the tappet whole. Here's the creative part. You need to place a magnet down from the top where the push rod whole is connect the tappet to the magnet. Then gently pull it up while guiding it from the bottom-- this is a two man job.
Removing the pan required that I drop the front engine carrier/a frame. Support the engine by placing supports under the mounts after moving the carrier/a frame support.
This probably added 4 hours plus pan gasket to the job. Good luck!
Supporting Tuner
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 51,896
Likes: 39
From: ================== Houston, Texas www.englandgreen.com ================== Necessary Evil™ __________
CI 6-7-8-9-10 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14
Originally Posted by Jim Taylor
The cam is out, and the lifter is all the way down. I assume it's sitting on the windage tray. I'm going out to remove the head since it has to be off anyway to replace the lifter. I'll repost with what went wrong with the dowels holding the lifters in place.
Before you removed the cam, did your spin it a few times to push the lifters up in their holders and then inserted the dowels before removing the cam?
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 517
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From: Arlington Texas
Originally Posted by EnglandGreen
Before you removed the cam, did your spin it a few times to push the lifters up in their holders and then inserted the dowels before removing the cam?
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 195
Likes: 98
Originally Posted by Jim Taylor
Yes, and it took a few spins before I stopped hearing the lifter(s) fall back down and hit the camshaft. After that I stuck the dowels through and pulled the camshaft. About a third of the way out, I hear the clunk of the lifter falling down and hitting bottom.
Hey man best of luck with the car, Im here in Arlington too, and Id come lend a hand if I wasnt stuck at work ALL DAY!!!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,625
Likes: 1
From: Rhode Island
Originally Posted by Jim Taylor
Yes, and it took a few spins before I stopped hearing the lifter(s) fall back down and hit the camshaft. After that I stuck the dowels through and pulled the camshaft. About a third of the way out, I hear the clunk of the lifter falling down and hitting bottom.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
What I found, is even with the rods, the retainers hold the lifters up out of the way. If they are worn, the lifters can fall at least to the cam. I also found the 5/16 rods were of marginal size to hold the lifters.
Good luck, hope it all works out.
Good luck, hope it all works out.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 517
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From: Arlington Texas
Here's what I did wrong with the dowels. I misunderstood how they held the lifters in place. I didn't realize they just wedge the lifters against their guide channels. I used a too small diameter dowel. If you do this, make sure you get dowels that go in with a tight/snug fit.
As an added bonus, I realize I dropped two lifters -- one on the driver's side and one on the passenger side. Now I get to yank both heads. I must not be living right.
I am concerned about the effort involved in dropping the oil pan. Can anyone post some detailed steps on how to support the engine, drop the cradle, etc.? I worry about an operation where step 1 in the service manual is "Remove the front crossmember."
As an added bonus, I realize I dropped two lifters -- one on the driver's side and one on the passenger side. Now I get to yank both heads. I must not be living right.
I am concerned about the effort involved in dropping the oil pan. Can anyone post some detailed steps on how to support the engine, drop the cradle, etc.? I worry about an operation where step 1 in the service manual is "Remove the front crossmember."
Racer
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 300
Likes: 0
From: miami florida
i just told you dont mess with the oil pan..that is super dumb.. i did the same thing u are about to do and spent countless hrs trying to fish it out and i was never able to fish it out since it got stock somewhere. just fish it out through the valley pan..
get both heads off the car right now and take off your intake as well. once you take the valley pan cover off, im sure you will be able to see it and fish it out with a pen magnet.
what do you have to lose if you do it the way i tell you? nothing..and it is better than starting to unbolt your entire oil pan and waste all that time. also, once u mess with your oil pan then you must make sure taht all bolts are torqued to specs and even then you are going to see oil pan leaks that are going to drive you wild.
do as i said and the worse case scenario is that you have to try the other way everyone mentioned.
get both heads off the car right now and take off your intake as well. once you take the valley pan cover off, im sure you will be able to see it and fish it out with a pen magnet.
what do you have to lose if you do it the way i tell you? nothing..and it is better than starting to unbolt your entire oil pan and waste all that time. also, once u mess with your oil pan then you must make sure taht all bolts are torqued to specs and even then you are going to see oil pan leaks that are going to drive you wild.
do as i said and the worse case scenario is that you have to try the other way everyone mentioned.
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 195
Likes: 98
Originally Posted by whitecamaross
i just told you dont mess with the oil pan..that is super dumb.. i did the same thing u are about to do and spent countless hrs trying to fish it out and i was never able to fish it out since it got stock somewhere. just fish it out through the valley pan..
get both heads off the car right now and take off your intake as well. once you take the valley pan cover off, im sure you will be able to see it and fish it out with a pen magnet.
what do you have to lose if you do it the way i tell you? nothing..and it is better than starting to unbolt your entire oil pan and waste all that time. also, once u mess with your oil pan then you must make sure taht all bolts are torqued to specs and even then you are going to see oil pan leaks that are going to drive you wild.
do as i said and the worse case scenario is that you have to try the other way everyone mentioned.
get both heads off the car right now and take off your intake as well. once you take the valley pan cover off, im sure you will be able to see it and fish it out with a pen magnet.
what do you have to lose if you do it the way i tell you? nothing..and it is better than starting to unbolt your entire oil pan and waste all that time. also, once u mess with your oil pan then you must make sure taht all bolts are torqued to specs and even then you are going to see oil pan leaks that are going to drive you wild.
do as i said and the worse case scenario is that you have to try the other way everyone mentioned.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 23,283
Likes: 906
From: Lake Elsinore, CA
I've heard of guys pulling lifter out from the front as EG suggests and by dropping the pan which is a PITA. Here's a shot with the valley cover pan off. Don't see how you'd reach anything form there unless you're right over it.
Best of luck.
Best of luck.