I have tried to do some searches but haven't been able to narrow this one down!

I have a 1997 stock/daily driver. I drove it home last Friday night and all seemed fine. The wife went to drive it Saturday morning and called me to say it wouldn't run.

When I first attempt it will run for a second or 2. Repeat tries and it just stubles but no start! I can smell some fuel!

Symptoms:

will run for a second or 2, reapeated attempts it just sputters
the code from the IPC is: QC CODE 424231
all the guages are wacked
fuel level on E
voltage on like 8
traction control needs serviced
....ect
Battery is fine
Alt is fine
Has fuel in tank
I can hear fuel pump run when I turn the key
I cleaned the grounds by the hood shocks

HAVE NOT DONE:
BCM relearn
fuel pressure test
cleaned any additional grounds

HELP! Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks in advance!!

Byron

 

"fuel level on E"

Is it out of gas??

 

I didn't think so. So just went ahead and added 1.5 gallons just make sure!

 

UPDATE:

Tried the BCM relearn- no fix
tested the fuel pressure 60psi-fine

Any ideas? CKP?

 

Had a very similar problem with my 97. Turned out to be a bad BCM module. Dealer had to replace and reprogram it. About a 500 dollar fix.
Threw lots of codes and somehow shut the systems down including security that would not let the car run or shut it down unexpectedly.
Might want to check for corrosion in the BCM.

 

If your reading 8 volts, then you have a problem!!!!!!!! Yea,, the battery could be good but, the voltage at the B+ terminal is bad! Your car (computers will NOT function with voltages lower than 9.5 VDC Even if there reading 10.5 at times they will have issues!

I recommend that you remove and clean your battery terminals. Make sure that you torque the terminals back on the battery to 11 ft/lbs.

Follow the negative battery cable/s to there ground points. There will be TWO areas where the negative cable grounds to. The passengers side of the engine block and chassis ground G-104/108. make sure that both of those grounds are clean and tight!

Clear all of your codes and give it a try

If you still have an issue after that, we will go from there. Please read the codes again and see what pops up after the cleaning.

Bill Curlee

 

Bill,

Thanks for helping! I went ahead and cleaned the 2 batt grounds. the terminal on the battery are good and tq'd. Still no luck!

The codes in the dash are listed below and all say "NO COMM":
10 pcm
28
38 rtd
40 bcm
60 ipc
80 radio
99 havac
AO LDCM
A1
A6 SCM
BO RFA


Thanks again for any help!

 

With everything reading NO COMMS, your BCM or PCM is not getting powered up properly. There are multiple power sources on the BCM and PCM. Some are "HOT AT ALL TIMES" and some are "IGNITION ON" powered.

It could be a bad fuse, bad relay, bad wire, etc.. There is a B+ terminal on the fuse box under the hood. Take the cover off that connection and read it with a meter to ground with the ignition ON & OFF and let us know what the voltage reads. It should be 12 VDC.

Bill

 

11.99 with key OFF
11.65 with Key ON

 

Your not giving the correct error codes which have a letter and 3 numbers like a Pxxx would be related to the engine, Bxxx for BCM.
If you do not have a scanner to see the codes and are using the DIC then hit reset once in diag mode to get into manual mode and use option button to scroll from one module to the other and write down the correct code.

You might think battery is good voltage wise but if it has a bad cell the voltage would show OK with no load but would not be able to start the car with the load it requires.

 

Yep ,,,,,,,,I agree!!! What the heck is "IPC QC CODE 424231"

If you read the DIC DTC codes you will see/should see something like this PCM 0523 H or PCM 0523 C.

Try charging the battery for a few hours and see if that makes a difference.

Bill

 

I am not sure what that code was? That was the first time I had tried to getthe codes. Maybe I messed up. Now all I am getting are the NO COMM. I guess the car cant talk to its own computer! I need to figure out why. I will place the charger on it for a while. I am about to push this thing over the hill!!!!

 

All of the modules are connected together with a serial line to allow the modules (microprocessors) to communicate. The serial line can be accessed at the data link under the dash in the drivers foot well. If there is a short or issue with the serial line, none of the modules will be able to communicate. I ran into a problem this weekend where a seat control module plug was corroded and was causing the data line in that plug to be grounded to the ground wire.

Next to the BCM (big silver box in the passengers foot well there are two weird looking connectors. Those are the star connectors for the serial buss. Take a look at those two plugs and make sure that there not damaged or corroded.
If you want to get really in depth, you can disconnect each module and read the serial buss to ground and see if you get any readings. It should read open or infinity. If you did happen to get a reading, you can pull the shorting bar off each star connector and read each separate line to ground and figure out which module connector is causing the issue.

When I first purchased my 98 coupe, and joined the forum, I would see post where someone stated that the car died and the tech found that the left door control module was causing the problem! I would think " what in the world was that guy smoking??? After my 98 had significant ground problems, I had to get REALLY in depth into the C5 electrical/electronics system and now all of that stuff makes sense!

So,,,,,,,,you can start disconnecting easy to get to modules (ie.. seat control modules, dash control module, Left and right door control modules, HVAC Control module, EBTCM, RFA module one at a time and see if your communications come back. Are you SURE that your BCM is not wet or damp?????? If the BCM has gotten wet, it will cause this for SURE!!!!!

This stuff is a sickness BUT i love it!!!

Bill Curlee

 

Bill,

Thanks for the help! I will dig into her!

Also, this happened when the wife tried to go to the store sat morning. We did drive home in some nasty rain friday night! That and she said I had left the drivers door barely open all night(in the garage).

 

My 98 was acting similar to what you describe, and it ended up being the ground on the frame, just behind the drivers side rear wheel. I cleaned it up and it ran fine.

 

If your battery was, is or even thought about being LOW, get a charger on it for a solid 2-3 hours at hight rate gharge and then see what happens!

Check that BCM out too. Look for moisture, wet carpet and jute underlayment!!

BC

 

Ok. I have spent all night checking grounds and connections. I took the PCM and BCM out to visually inspect them. I haven't found any bad grounds and all the connections look good. No corrosion in them. The PCM had lots on the outside but none on the inside! Is there a way to directly test the PCM and BCM? If not can the dealer bench test them?

 

The dealer can bench a PCM but they may say that they cant cause they DONT KNOW HOW!! I dont know if they can check the BCM on the bench.

Dont know what to tell you. I wish that you lived close.

BC

 

Before you get scammed by the dealer, try this. If you do it carefully, it will NOT hurt the BCM.

DISCONNECT THE BATTERY

Remove the BCM from the car.

Pry open the top cover on the BCM aluminum box. There is a small screw on the bottom of the box. Before you remove that screw, note the position and location of the vertically mounted IC component that is attached on the right hand top portion of the board. When you mount the board back in the box, make sure that it is positioned in the exact same position!

Now that you understand that step, remove the board and examine the back portion of the board. If it has white corrosion on it, that could be your problem. Mine was covered with it. I was able to clean it off with a soft bristle brush and alcohol. The board is ESD sensitive so make sure that you don't zap it with static electricity!

When I cleaned mine, it worked like a champ!

if yours is clean, nothing lost but a little time.

Bill

 

I had an electrical problem several months ago that was caused by one section of the ignition switch going bad. It was a bear to troubleshoot. Are you saying that the voltmeter in the dash says 8 volts? If this is true AND your battery voltage is normal than let me know and I can help you track it down.

It turned out that a relay wasn't being energized correctly. I actually found a way to jumper across the defective switch section at the fuse block to verify my diagnosis. The jumper worked like a champ. I went down to a local dealer, bought a new switch, installed it and *voila* problem solved.