stock air bridge vs halltech
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,340
Likes: 35
From: Folsom Lake CA
Originally Posted by mcv
Thanks for the feedback, Mr L.
Perhaps I need to clarify as well.
The Honker Intake and Double-D Exhaust prices weren't established to intentionally be more expensive than other intakes. Working up from production cost, it just adds up that way. The fact is that it simply costs more to manufacture the Honker than it does to build some of the intakes you refer to. The Honker design is more complex so installation is easier. The main duct is more difficult to mold, resulting in a lot of rejected parts, because the duct's shape was designed to provide more flow than other systems. The filter element itself costs us more because it performs better. The list goes on. In order to reduce the Honker's price, we would have to compromise content or quality.
The suggestion that Callaway could charge $299. for the Honker if we wanted would suggest that we're artificially inflating our prices because we think we can get away with it, or basically price gouging. That's not true. When we were able to charge less for the C6 Honker ($390.) than for the C5 Honker ($490.), because the C6 version contains less components and is less expensive to build, we did so.
As for popularity, we are currently selling more Honkers than we can produce. Just ask any of our dealers how frequently we are out of stock (unfortunately). I don't mention this to suggest that the current prices are justified because of the product's high demand. I just don't want other readers to get the impression that Honker sales are poor because the product is overpriced, if that's indeed what you have suggested.
We really appreciate your opinion, Mr L. Your comments indicate that we have to work harder to communicate our products' value.
Perhaps I need to clarify as well.
The Honker Intake and Double-D Exhaust prices weren't established to intentionally be more expensive than other intakes. Working up from production cost, it just adds up that way. The fact is that it simply costs more to manufacture the Honker than it does to build some of the intakes you refer to. The Honker design is more complex so installation is easier. The main duct is more difficult to mold, resulting in a lot of rejected parts, because the duct's shape was designed to provide more flow than other systems. The filter element itself costs us more because it performs better. The list goes on. In order to reduce the Honker's price, we would have to compromise content or quality.
The suggestion that Callaway could charge $299. for the Honker if we wanted would suggest that we're artificially inflating our prices because we think we can get away with it, or basically price gouging. That's not true. When we were able to charge less for the C6 Honker ($390.) than for the C5 Honker ($490.), because the C6 version contains less components and is less expensive to build, we did so.
As for popularity, we are currently selling more Honkers than we can produce. Just ask any of our dealers how frequently we are out of stock (unfortunately). I don't mention this to suggest that the current prices are justified because of the product's high demand. I just don't want other readers to get the impression that Honker sales are poor because the product is overpriced, if that's indeed what you have suggested.
We really appreciate your opinion, Mr L. Your comments indicate that we have to work harder to communicate our products' value.
It's too bad your manufacturing process results in enough rejects to drive costs up. That's a bummer.
Please understand that I did not mean to infer that you guys are ripping people off, I was just voicing some thoughts for you to consider, because even though your dealers are out of stock alot, and you can't keep up with demand in production, that could also be viewed as the price IS too high so vendors might not want to stock more than one or two units of the product, and JIT manufacturing gets buried because you only build to order. Granted, if costs themselves are high, then there's not much choice, unless, of course, you corner the market, and are then able to predict sales more accurately.
In any case, it's too bad the Honker is so expensive, because I still contend that if it were priced lower, more people would buy it. I'm not saying it necessarily needs to less than the competition. But, it's your business, and you know what you're up against in costs, so I shouldn't have said anything to begin with, except it's too expensive. I just thought that a different perspective might help.
Last edited by MrLeadFoot; May 9, 2006 at 05:24 PM.
6th Gear
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Stafford VA
Originally Posted by wango tango
Flowed both bridges last night.
@ 2" of vac
stocker halltech
377 cfm 368 cfm
Both flow more air than any LSx N/A motor I've dealt with can handle. Interesting however, to note that GM has some serious design in the stocker, and it is NOT a restriction like so many think.
@ 2" of vac
stocker halltech
377 cfm 368 cfm
Both flow more air than any LSx N/A motor I've dealt with can handle. Interesting however, to note that GM has some serious design in the stocker, and it is NOT a restriction like so many think.
An engine that displaces 350 cubic inches, running at 6000rpm should take in air to each cylinder once every other revolution.
350 sq in X 3000 intakes per minute = 1,050,000 cubic inches of air per minute.
Converting cubic inches to cubic feet, we divide by 12 cubed or 1728
1,050,000/1728 = 607.638 cubic feet per minute, or cfm.
How is anything less than 600 cfm sufficient?
(thanks for tolerating my possibly flawed math)
6th Gear
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Stafford VA
Got it. So the math implies that if I'm looking at upgrades, an easy-breathing filter is the most influential part (as opposed to a kit that includes filter and an aftermarket air bridge). This says good things about the basic Blackwing.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
Don't forget temperature, which is where the Donaldson alone falls short of other systems. The filter is excellent however, but you need to feed it cold air. Close hood environment is different.
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Pro
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 723
Likes: 0
From: MOTOWN / Fort Dix NJ MI
Originally Posted by Dave68
Mmmm, Jim Hall has a flowbench as well and he insisted that his airbridge outflows the stocker. The simple fact that the Halltech airbridge cross sectional area is larger than the stocker suggests he is correct. Perhaps you are not testing it the same way he did. From what I've read here in the forum, most people know that the stock air bridge flows adequately for non-artificially aspirated engines. It's the super and turbo-charged engines that require more flow that the stock intake components can provide. Besides, at the price Halltech charges for the Stinger package, the airbridge and smooth TB couple are like freebies compared to other systems that contain only an air filter.
ohh ohh "Vette Tax"
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
Originally Posted by blkverty2k
But others, like Halltech Stinger, place the filter in essentially the same location. What inductions besides vararam would you place on the list of cold air systems?
Vortex
Hurricane
