This goes in the direction of what I have been saying......your TB is only so big! It can only flow so much air! Going larger in front of it really should not make any difference at all, as long as there are no openings in front of your TB that are any smaller than your TB opening. Naturally, a less restrictive air filter will play a major role in air flow. Given....the stock C5 air box lid may be a little small, but is it smaller than the TB opening? Has anyone measured this to see?

 

If you look at the stock air box part of the reason it is small is to use the warmer engine air to pass emissions. When GM opened up the opening on the 02 Z06 they gained 2-3 hp because it lowered the incoming air temp. Any method to gain cooler air will result in higher HP. Honker, Veraram, Vortex, etc all are using ambient air to lower the IAT. The cooler the air the more dense the air...that makes the HP.
Add more cubes, higher RPM's, etc then larger openings can aid.

 

That is how we did it, 3x each.

 

this is my before and after, back when mine was brand new. +27RWHP gain with halltech + ls1 edit. The halltech *alone* was 16RWHP gain, but I don't have that image handy at the moment...

 

I think you might be misunderstanding Callaway's position. We aren't suggesting that the Honker's price is justified because it's just like including a big air bridge. When we began development of our C5 intake system, we found, as some are suggesting here, that "performance air bridges" aren't much better (if at all) than stock units. They all have air paths that converge, diverge and converge again. This creates turbulence. Our engineers believed that if the air path could be modified to eliminate this turbulence, flow rate (and power) would increase significantly. So they proceeded to eliminate the air bridge entirely. Getting rid of the air bridge and streamlining the air path with CAD-designed, large radii provided a substantial increase in flow. Not unlike what GM's engineers did with the C6 intake design. Close-coupling the MAF sensor to the throttle body and developing a unique filter element design also contributed to increased airflow, and increased power.

The cutaway shown below illustrates the elimination of the air bridge. It shows a C6 Honker, but it's very similar to the C5 Honker.

 

While I like the design of your unit, and I can see that it probably does indeed eek out a bit more performance than many other after-market intakes, $500 is a ridiculous price to pay for an intake kit. No offense intended, but if you think about the "bang for the buck" we're all looking for, the Honker is simply not a smart move.

Now, your exhausts are in line with other similarly constructed systems, even though you claim to outflow other competitiors in that area as well. So, why is the Honker is twice the price of quality competing kits when it clearly can NOT outperform the competition by double?

 

The information on this post would seem to confirm Varam's position that they did not include an aftermarket airbridge design in their VaraRAm VR-2B design because there was no gain over the stock airbridge.

 

Either that or they were scared to since they already have so many fitment issues, as it is.

Sorry, I couldn't resist, 'cause if there's one thing that bugs me most, especially with cars of this caliber, is things not fitting right. If you can't make something that fits WELL, you have no business going after a market like this one.

 

Mr. Leadfoot,

This rule of diminishing returns applies to many performance upgrades, such as a supercharger. It costs more than 20 times the cost of a typical $250 intake system, but does not produce 20x the power (figuring a 12 RWHP increase from the intake).
Sometimes eeking out that last few HP requires many hours of design and testing - hence the fairly large jump in price. The other thing to consider as well is the fact that the Honker is 50 states legal. Getting approved by C.A.R.B. is not always easy or inexpensive.

Dave

 

No offense taken.

I think you'll find that our Double-D exhaust systems, at $1,095, are at the higher end of the price spectrum also.

The Honker was designed for Corvette owners that want the best possible intake system. To us, that means the best engineered system with the most power increase, the most complete package for ease of installation, the most confidence that DTC's won't be triggered, the easiest to maintain, the best quality of the materials used for extended durability, and the best post-installation underhood appearance. Plus, for most C5 applications, the Honker is 50-state "emissions legal". C5 Honker development wasn't a cost-be-damned exercise, but cost/price was not the primary consideration. Performance was.

While airflow and power are the most important factors in choosing an intake system, they aren't the only factors. We haven't found an aftermarket system that outflows the Honker or makes more power in A-B C5 dyno testing. The difference is more than just an "eek". However, I think the Bang in "Bang for the Buck" means more than just power. It's ultimately Value, which in this case has to do with product design, quality of the materials used, the product construction, ease of maintenance, emissions compliance, its installed appearance. Basically, the things I mentioned above.

If someone is selecting an intake system with pricing as the primary determinant, clearly, the Callaway Honker would not be their choice. I'm admittedly biased, but if you consider the whole picture, then I think choosing Honker is a very smart move.

 

Hey, Dave, how's it going?

I wasn't necessarily implying what you commented about, but I guess it sounded that way, huh? Sorry for the confusion.

 

See, that's my point. Your Double-D exhaust is indeed at the upper end of the spectrum, but not the most expensive by far, like the Honker seems to be. The top-of-the-line models by Corsa are about the same price, and the top-of-the-line GHLs are within 10%, or so. But, in comparison, the Honker is 50 - 100% more than other systems.

Before what I previously posted is ends up being considered a flame, I think I better qualify what I meant in that original post.

I own a software company, and I believe our products are top-notch, as well. But, just because we know that our products outperform the competition ("outperform" being a relative term, here), we keep our prices fairly competitive to even lesser products, simply because that's what the market for the genre bears.

Personally, I believe your Honker is priced too close to the OUTSIDE edge of the market, and might very well position you out of the market, as far as air intakes are concerned.

Yes, I understand that there were probably considerable costs involved in R&D and all the other stuff that goes along with bringing a product to market, but it almost seems like you're trying to pay for those costs with a relatively low number of sales. I would think it would be better to attain that particular revenue level by capturing the market than it is to try to attain that same level of revenue with a significantly lower number of sales.

Maybe it's just the marketing part of me that says it would make more sense to sell that product at $299, for example. Only a few of the benefits of such a strategic move I've listed below:

1) I believe your company would garner many more times the sales of Honkers you're probably seeing now, if the number of posts on this forum regarding people with Honkers is any indication of the ratio of Honkers to other intake kits.

2) Because an air intake kit is one of your relaively lower-priced items, a lower entry point would serve to allow consumers, who might not otherwise consider your products due to high prices, to sample a "taste" of what they can expect from ALL of your product line.

For example, if the Honker is indeed of the quality you've highly touted here (and I am by no means doubting your integrity), it is entirely possible that these new customers would then consider spending a bit more on your other products even though they might be at the upper end of the price spectrum, knowing that they can feel confident that the quality of ALL your products is worth the extra dollars, does that make sense?

3) While some might say that the people that already have say a Halltech Stinger, like me, or a Vortex Rammer, or whatever else have you are already off the market, that's not necessarily true. If the Honker really does outperform what I have, looks better, is easier to maintain, and makes forging CARB stickers from smog purposes a thing of the past, I would consider switching... but is it worth $500 to me? Heck, no! But, if the price was more attractive, say at the price point I mentioned above, that would enable you to actually steal market share. While that particular price would reduce your revenue per unit by 40%, wouldn't that be worth it if quintupled your current market share, or more (just a wild number, but you get my point)?

Sure, it would be worth it. Just look at how many people alone bought in on the WDP rotor extravaganza, or should I say "melee"? Yes, that whole deal turned into a fiasco for a lot of people, but the point is that just a simply post on this forum alone garnered that company hundreds of more sales than they anticipated. People who didn't even need new brakes bought them for later!

Of course, that company apparently could not fill all their orders, nor could their customer service handle the volume, but a company with good management would love to have that problem, wouldn't you agree?!

4) While this next benefit may not seem like one to you, I believe it is.

As far as I know, your Double-D exhaust is a relatively new system, as far as cat-backs are concerned. That's one of the reasons I shied away from it. I paid a little less than the Double-D exhaust for a competing system for several reasons.

More people seemed to buy the system I bought, so I felt more confident that the other manufacturer would take good care of me.

I was able to get more recommendations from other "users" of their products prior to making my decision

Undoubtedly due to their success in their particular market, the other company offered different configurations for its system, giving me more choices.

Sure, if you've followed any of my recent posts, you already know that I've had some fitment issues on the system I recently received, but as expected, the manufacturer has been very accomodating in helping me resolve my issue. While that in itself is great, that's not the point.

The point is that while your system may indeed have high QA, and all that, I didn't even consider your system because I know of very few people that even have your systems, and truthfully I was afraid to take a chance on getting an expensive "Version 1", you know what I mean?

Now, if I already had your "high-quality" Honker, let's say, I probably would've been more apt to consider your Double-D, even though maybe only a few people had it, simply because of my previous experience with the Honker. And, if you guys sold more exhausts, you might even be able to offer different configurations of them and capture even MORE people.

Callaway already has a good name, but to me, it has always meant "very expensive products meant only for racers, because those are the type of people willing to spend that kind of money". IMHO, you now have the perfect opportunity to significantly expand your market share and "take it to the streets". I bet you could rid the market of Vararams quite quickly (not that they're even a contender for Callaway), for starters, given all the bad raps they're currently getting.

Sincerely,
MrLeadFoot

 

I'm not going to get into the marketing/cost aspects....I think Mr. Leadfoot has that issue in hand

I personally would get the Honker if you could show me data that it out performs my current setup. I have the Haltech Trap with fog shrouds cut open for air flow. If memory serves me right I think I paid almost $400 for that setup 2 years ago.


DH

 

I guess I did go a little overboard. Sorry about that. Anybody got an emoticon of a guy drowning?

 

 

Taking into account all that has been said in this post, it seems to me that the very best payoff for an intake mod is the zip tie mod coupled with some holes in the fog light shrouds. Anybody dyno'd those mods compared to the high dollar systems? Just wondering out loud because the cheap mod really woke my 97 up. Chuck.

 

Well, if the price was as you describe, I for one would trade my Vararam for the Honker as I like the design, the filter and the quality. But with the investment in the Vararam and the cost of the Honker, its much harder to justify. The clinker would be if my oil analysis comes back bad from using the Vararan, then I would be more inclined to spend the money anyhow.

 

Thanks for the feedback, Mr L.
Perhaps I need to clarify as well.

The Honker Intake and Double-D Exhaust prices weren't established to intentionally be more expensive than other intakes. Working up from production cost, it just adds up that way. The fact is that it simply costs more to manufacture the Honker than it does to build some of the intakes you refer to. The Honker design is more complex so installation is easier. The main duct is more difficult to mold, resulting in a lot of rejected parts, because the duct's shape was designed to provide more flow than other systems. The filter element itself costs us more because it performs better. The list goes on. In order to reduce the Honker's price, we would have to compromise content or quality.

The suggestion that Callaway could charge $299. for the Honker if we wanted would suggest that we're artificially inflating our prices because we think we can get away with it, or basically price gouging. That's not true. When we were able to charge less for the C6 Honker ($390.) than for the C5 Honker ($490.), because the C6 version contains less components and is less expensive to build, we did so.

As for popularity, we are currently selling more Honkers than we can produce. Just ask any of our dealers how frequently we are out of stock (unfortunately). I don't mention this to suggest that the current prices are justified because of the product's high demand. I just don't want other readers to get the impression that Honker sales are poor because the product is overpriced, if that's indeed what you have suggested.

We really appreciate your opinion, Mr L. Your comments indicate that we have to work harder to communicate our products' value.

 

I'll PM you with comparison.

 

I wouldn't mine seeing the data as well