My friend and I are doing a cam swap on his 97 c5. I have done various cam swaps on ls1 based trucks and cars. Just recently I did a cam swap in my 98 vette. In my past experiences I have never encountered the harmonic balancer bolt to be so tight goin on. It was kind of tough to break the bolt free intially. But, now when we started to install the balancer we got it to within 1/8 inch from where it needs to be. When trying to seat the balancer further in moves the car with it, also the 1/2 in breaker bar bends. Everything went normal until the last part of seating the balancer back in. What could of went wrong, or what can I do?

 

Is this a new balancer? How did you get the balancer onto the crank snout, with an installer or with the bolt? What is the distance between the end of the crank snout and the balancer hub?

 

I am using the old bolt right now. The balancer is about one cog off on the serpitine belt or an 1/8 in from where it should be. The bolt is tight in both directions. It will loosen up when I reverse directions and then tighten again. What are my options right now?

 

yes, they are a bear to get seated.
First, somehow try to be sure the balancer went on very straight.
The actual hub is aluminum, and can score and peel a bit if not started just right. look inside the bore for any shavings being peeled back.
or, if you are really concerned, pull the balancer back off and start over.
This time, heat the balancer to about 250 in your wife's oven, and hang a bag of ice on the crank. makes it much easier to start it.

Assuming all is straight, and it just gets tough (and it does) use another washer and lots of grease on the surface where the washer contacts the balancer and the bolt head. Thiis should make a really big difference, as the washer or bolt head will dig into the aluminum balancer and create a lot of resistance.

The balancer should go on not quite all the way to the end of the crank. The crank should be recessed approx 0.1 inch when it's on all the way.

Whjen I was putting mine on, I used a longer bolt to start it, then switched to a well-oiled GM bolt. I used a 2 ft cheater pipe on an 18 in Craftsman breakover. I got it down to just about one rib short, and it got very tight. I thought sure I had it. But I checked, and the bolt was digging into the balancer a bit, and peeling the metal. I cleaned up the surfaces real well, greased it again, and it went on down.
I probably put 250 lb-ft on my 3 ft wrench (about 80 lbs at the end)
It was a hard pull, great excercise. but the last time, I really felt it when it bottomed - man it just stopped. i have a manual tranny, and
put it in 4th with the hand brake on. There was about 20 degrees of driveline wrap-up before it firmed up on each pass, but I had the hood off, and lots of room.

After you get it seated, chedk that 0.1 recess.
Then you know the next drill - new bolt 50lb-ft, then 140 more degrees rotation, I think. Mark the bolt head and the balancer after you finish, and check them after a few days to be sure all is well.

Good luck,
Wrench

 

What should I do? I can't even get the bolt to back out. What can I do to get it to start to back out?

 

OK, take it slow. If the bolt gets tight going in, and then loose then tight coming out the threads are messed up for some reason. You need to get the bolt back out, don't go in further. I would try and use some PB spray and work it in by spraying and then tightening and loosening the bolt only for the turns that are easy. Once you feel you have worked it in, back it out until it gets hard, then try to back out a small amount more. Then back in until it gets easy again. Then come out until hard and then a bit more. You need to work it out of the crank snout slowly and easy with plenty of lube. It may have galled during installation. If you can get it out, you can then correct the threads either by re-tapping, heli-coil or a larger thread. But first, the bolt you have must come out.

Good luck.

PS: I saw some of the advice on the LS1Tech, don't heat the bolt you could not only weaken it but also make it larger so it binds more. Also, don't put it in with red loctite, you may never get it out again.

 

Updates?

 

the best advice i would give has already been given with getting the balencer hot and the crank cold. On the old crank bolt there will be some LockTite around the underside of the head. take some sandpaper or a dremmel and buzz all that off. This might help you use that old bolt as an installation tool. I tried myself several times to get the crank bolt all the way in and finally i took the car up to LG and they used an impact gun the size of a mini cooper to put it on. But that worked and it hasn't backed out since then.

Shane

 

threaded rod w/ nut and washer, this way it the rod is stressed and not the internal threads of the crank during the install

 

Got the old bolt out now. Fresh day; Fresh start. Out of the 1 inch thread contact inside the crank, 1/2 in is stripped on the bolt. I am planning on using another old bolt I have and grind down two sides flat and use wd-40 and chase the threads in the crank. Does anyone have any ideas or other suggestions in order to make the reinstallation a success?

 

I would not try and use a home made tap to clean the threads out, I would find a real tap in the right size and do it right. You'll want a bottoming cutting tap to make sure you get threads all the way down clean.

Good luck!
-Ken

 

With the threaded rod bottomed out in the crank, all the threads in the crank are taking the load, not just the threads on the end.

 

We use 2 crank bolts cut just above @ the threads and welded together to get the crank pulley 75%. We replace that with a old bolt with no locktite and some grease on the washer head and go to 250 ft/lbs with the tranny in 6th gear and the E-brake up. Once it goes to 250 remove the bolt replace with a fresh one and torque to:
37 ft/lbs followed by 140 degrees

 

Good to hear.

You need a puller, either home made or store bought, to get the balancer on correctly. Once it is on, then you can follow the procedure in the manual. Unfortunately, your old bolt used for the 250 lb-ft portion of the procedure is toast.

 

Thats what I did....I had the same issue but my threads were not messed up.
Before you re-install the pulley I would make sure that the the bolt will go in all the way by hand.
It takes alot of force to get it rotated 140 deg.(I have done mine twice now).
My breaker bar was also bending and the car did seem like it was going to move forward.
If you are worried about getting the 140 deg of rotation you could pin the balancer on the crank so you don't have to go through this.
Take your time and good luck!!
let us know how you make out.

 

I guess at this point, you have the balancer still on, but 1/8" from seating.
And you have a few of the threads stripped.

I guess if it were me, I would not take anny chances, and see if I could save the day without drilling/tapping new threads.
1. I would see if I could tell how many good threads you have, and how deep they go. You might need a slightly longer bolt than the GM bolt, in order to engage all the good threads, but not bottom out.
You will need to engage 5 good threads with the balancer fully on and the bolt tightened for permanrnt use.
Get the final bolt plan worked out - if you need a longer bolt, find one, and get it ready before proceeding.
2. Then I would pull the balancer back off, and be REALLY sure it was clean, not galled, etc;
3. I'd get a tap and really clean the crank threads, then verify my measurements on depth - where the good threads start, how deep, etc.
4. I'd get a threaded rod or long bolt and a nut/washers, as was suggested, and use it to re-install the balancer. Seat it all the way down in the crank, then turn the nut/washer against the balancer, with
plenty of oil/grease on the threads and the washer/balancer interface.
5. After it's totally seated, check the depth measurements carefully, and install the final bolt (probably a slightly longer one).
Measure/measure/measure to be sure the bolt won't bottom out.
Remember it will stretch about 0.050" when you do the final torque.

Summary: Something galled or bound up on the original install attempt.
Find it, fix it before trying again. (pull the dampener).
put it on using a seatred rod and washer (or a real $40 installer).
Get at least 5 threads engaged on the final bolt.
If you can't do these, you may need to drill/tap the crank.

 

For those of you who have pinned the pulley: How much do you tighten the bolt for installation? Locktite?

 

I read on here somewhere about heating the balancer up in and oven to about 200 degrees (not much hotter than an engine compartment would get). I've installed three balancers on different brands of cars since and it's worked excellent. Pull that thing off stick in the oven for about 20 min, grab it with a leather glove and get it as far down the crank as you can. Give the center part(not the outer ring supported by rubber) a few LIGHT taps with a hammer and run the bolt home. Good Luck!

 

Don't you guys have the front wheels off and on jack stands? Seems scarey if it's so tight the rear wheels are turning. And what do you do if you have an automatic tranny? I'm asking because I am going to be putting mine on soon also. I think I will put the wheels back on just to be safe for when I go and start tightening it.

 

Posting for Red12secz28: He is the one working on my car.

I fixed the stripped crank bolt. Apparently the crank was fine and the crank bolt suffered the most. I cleaned and tapped the crank with an old bolt that i had. When threading the old bolt in I made sure that i could hand tighten the bolt all the way to the balancer hub. So all I had to do is put the new bolt in and torque it to the 250ftlb. Now the car is running and no problems. Thanks guys for all your input. If not I don't know how bad off I would be.