ok. u gotta c5 so those who know its a pain to change oil pump because steering rack has to be removed. i did h/c swap and (upgraded) to rollmaster double roller chain...BIG MISTAKE. got car back together car ran about 5 mins, BAM! 1st oil pump goes. remove balancer and see where the ouside diameter of the hub on the pulley had been rubbing the gear in the oil pump, binding it up. so i take to machine shop have some clearance cut down on the hub replace pump, balancer clears, crank it up after about 2 seconds BAM AGAIN! ok now i see where timing cover has a dent in it where its pressing against the spaced out pump,(spaced to clear the infamous double roller) so i do some research and then grind the **** outta my cover dye the inside with ink install pump and bolt up timing cover, remove timing cover, no scratches on the ink, everything seems to have clearance now. fire it up again finally got it right,,,so i thought. dynoed it, did good by the way 417 sae with patriot stage II's and torquerII cam, put about 100 miles on car and was just pulling in my driveway after a hard run and BAM! 3rd oil pump goes. just took it apart 3rd oil pump dead, hole in timing cover where i ground clearance(when oil pump locks up it goes to pieces and pickup tube breaks completely away from pump.) i dont know what to do now. i read where you still gotta grind the QTP aftermarket cover to clear chain. im scared to remove double roller chain and sprokets because i dont want cam to move and mess up timing. the cover is so beat up now, i cant tell if it was rubbing a little or if oilpump just sucked up some trash and locked up. WHY DO THEY SELL THESE CHAINS IF THEY HAVE THIS MANY ISSUES???? any advice?? i guess im gona line it back up on tdc hope nothing moves and install new single roller chain and a new oil pump for the fourth time. also gonna completely remove oil pan to get any metal out i cant see.

 

Didn't do my install myself but I watched the mechanic do it. I got the Motion Double Roller. He installed it with the spacers you were talking about and didn't have to grind the timing cover at all. Haven't heard any strange noises and haven't blown up any oil pumps. He dropped the whole drivetrain so the engine was just sitting there making it much easier to do the install. I don't know what to tell you. But I have never heard of someone having so much trouble. I hate to say it, and I'm sure you are a competent mechanic, but do you think you might me doing something wrong? I feel like I am a very mechanically inclined individual but I would never have tried this install myself. My car runs too well to pull it apart myself.

 

and then youre gonna sell it huh? so much for the dyno run

 

Hmmmmm

3 engines, twice over 700rwhp and once over 800rwhp and NEVER a problem with ANY of my rollmaster double rollers...



Jeff

 

Wow, you really wanted that double roller timing set to work! Trashed 3 oil pumps and destroyed your timing cover. So what's next? Let us know when you figure out what you did wrong.

 

I don't think he did anything wrong, other than he didn't remove enough material, in the right places. Many people have had problems getting the timing cover to fit properly, after installing the Rollmaster double roller. I don't know why, but some bolt right up, and others have clearance issues. I had the same problem, but I removed material from the pump, not the cover. The cover hits right where the step in the casting is. The cover is very thin, so I didn't feel comfortable removing material from it. Because the pump is spaced out, it hit the cover where the oil pickup tube bolts on and also where the Allen screw for the pressure relief valve goes into the pump. There is plenty of material in those areas so you can grind some off at approximately a 45* angle, to get the clearance you need.

 

Personally, I would go back to the single setup and use the Katech chain. With the valve train in place, you have to rotate it pretty hard to move it, so lining up the dots and then swapping the sprockets shouldn't be an issue. These are some of the reasons I stayed with the single chain.

Hope you work it out OK.

 

Are you positively sure you cut enough off the balancer to clear? Is it a stock balancer? I made my own spacers which were a little thicker than stock and had no problem with stock cover clearance. Had to grind the crap out of the QTP cover, it wouldn't even clear the non-spaced stock setup correctly without grinding, but the QTP cover is very thick! I measured the balancer snout and calculated it would just barely clear. To be safe I cut (the best I remember) .100 off the balancer. The best I remember if you don't cut enough your balancer will push down on the oil pump rotor which would cause problem almost exactly like your describing.

Good luck!

 

We have seen the same problems on motors that others have built. They are junk and we will not use them. Most of them also have so much slop in them it's not even close.

Randy

 

I just built a 402 LS2. and installed Melling high volume pump which is thicker
I used a Motion Double chain set up. It comes with a double sprocket,a shorter oil pump drive and spacers for the oil pump. They all worked perfect for me until I tried to install the front cover. I had to machine the housing in five places, back of cam postion sensor, around the inside bevel of the cover, outside of the Melling oil pump galley wall and the inside front seal retaining wall.
After I did it all this it went back together perfect. I had tno problems with my ASP pulley

 

Hmmmm... I am using a double roller and Melling out pump and everything is working fine.

Keith

 

Are you using it on a LS2 block?
What brand chain?
did you have to space out the pump?

 

LQ4 Block
Rollmaster
Nope

Keith

 

why bother with all the stress..for the end results.

 

 

RollMaster double roller here for several thousand miles and no problems. Put one in my buddy's and have had several friends do the same and none of us has ever had an issue. All C5's of different MY's too.
Dunno . . .

 

uhh?? anyway i didnt do anything wrong. i blind monkey can bolt an oil pump to a block using the provided spacers... im saying i must have a fluke casted cover or something i guess...

the first pump went because the balancer was hitting the gear in the pump. i clearanced the balancer and re-installed.( should've looked at other clearance issues but didnt)
the second pump went immediatly. the timing cover itself was pressing against the oil pump once it was bolted up.(hard) ,my fault for not "feeling" it out properly. ground clearance on cover and pump this time. double checked everything for clearance this time. thought i had all the debris out of oil pan, but aparently i didnt. pretty sure the third pump failed due to trash making its way to it from the other 2 busted pumps. all in all if i wouldve used the single roller to start with none of this wouldve happened. the 3rd pump made it through 6 dyno runs and close to 100 miles of driving so i dont think clearance is the problem anymore. i was actually on my way to change oil again we it failed. i feel if i'd of done it a little sooner it wouldnt have failed.

 

this is kinda what i was leaning towards doing, however i was a little hesitant to remove sprockets with everything set. but also i feel if clearance was still the issue the 3rd pump wouldnt have lasted as long as it did.

 

I would think any trash large enough to cause a pump to lock up like that wouldn't fit through the oil pickup screen. I still think you may have a clearance problem. If you didn't get enough of the balancer removed it may still be hitting. Figure the end play of the crank may be enough to cause it to hit. Look closely at what is left of the steel rotors, if you see any galling you probably still have a clearance problem.

How much was removed from the balancer? Is it a stock balancer?

 

I'm sorry for your problems and also sorry that I'm too old to remember the exact details but, if you'll check my sig, I speced out all my mods myself. What I DO remember is that when I ordered my double roller chain JASON AT TEXAS SPEED told me something about under cutting something. Again I don't remember EXACTLY what we talked about but Jason provide the new oil pump and chain and Mike Norris had NO problems doing the install.
The car has run better than a timex for over 2 years and, except when I road race, dosen't use a drop of oil.
Best advise I can give is call Jason - he Knows his stuff and he's a really nice guy. Good luck.