Help - C5 won't stay aligned!
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 51,505
Likes: 6
From: Sacramento CA
Help - C5 won't stay aligned!
So at 29k miles, I had new tires put on, and an alignment done.
I noticed the next day, the steering wheel was off to the left when driving straight. So I took it back to the dealer, and they centered the wheel.
They put it JUST slightly to the right, which is OK by me.
Well today, not even 500 miles later, the wheel is a good distance to the left (top of the airbag crease is about 1/2" off center) and the car pulls right slightly.
Alignment issue, or warranty repair issue? Any input before I call the dealer?
Wheel bearings, tie rods?
I'd imagine those are covered by warranty?
TIA.
-Kale.
I noticed the next day, the steering wheel was off to the left when driving straight. So I took it back to the dealer, and they centered the wheel.
They put it JUST slightly to the right, which is OK by me.
Well today, not even 500 miles later, the wheel is a good distance to the left (top of the airbag crease is about 1/2" off center) and the car pulls right slightly.
Alignment issue, or warranty repair issue? Any input before I call the dealer?
Wheel bearings, tie rods?
I'd imagine those are covered by warranty?
TIA.
-Kale.
Last edited by Kale; Oct 19, 2006 at 03:05 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,847
Likes: 795
From: Longview Texas
I doubt you have worn out any suspension components in less than 30,000 miles, PLUS for your wheel to change positions, something had to move since it had been aligned.
The first thing I would check is that the alignment adjusting cam bolts are tightened to the correct torque. I think they are supposed to be about 125 ft-lbs. for the front.
I don't drive on rough roads, hit curbs or holes, etc. and my alignment had changed over time. The alignment shop even uses an impact to tighten the cam bolts, but when I got home I checked them with a torque wrench and found them still not up to 125 ft-lbs. Even with an impact wrench, unless you have a torque limiting device, the final torque depends on how much they hammer on it, so it gets down to feel of the operator.
Another thing you can do is mark the position of the alignment cams and see if they move.
The first thing I would check is that the alignment adjusting cam bolts are tightened to the correct torque. I think they are supposed to be about 125 ft-lbs. for the front.
I don't drive on rough roads, hit curbs or holes, etc. and my alignment had changed over time. The alignment shop even uses an impact to tighten the cam bolts, but when I got home I checked them with a torque wrench and found them still not up to 125 ft-lbs. Even with an impact wrench, unless you have a torque limiting device, the final torque depends on how much they hammer on it, so it gets down to feel of the operator.
Another thing you can do is mark the position of the alignment cams and see if they move.
Last edited by TEXHAWK0; Oct 19, 2006 at 03:41 PM.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 51,505
Likes: 6
From: Sacramento CA
Originally Posted by ajg1915
Sounds like something is shifting, maybe they did not re-torque the bolts correctly.
Do you feel any wobble in steering wheel ?
Do you feel any wobble in steering wheel ?
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
Originally Posted by Kale
Alignment issue, or warranty repair issue? Any input before I call the dealer?
Wheel bearings, tie rods?
I'd imagine those are covered by warranty?
TIA.
-Kale.
Wheel bearings, tie rods?
I'd imagine those are covered by warranty?
TIA.
-Kale.
Bad shop. Go some place else.
Is this shop or dealership using a Hunter alingment machine??? if they are, there is your problem. Hunter machines are not the best, but most popular. Hunters make corrections for road crown and they type of car you have.
Tell them you want
Front
Camber: -0.8*
Caster: MAX but must be equal on both sides
Toe: 1/16" out
Rear:
Camber: -0.5
toe: 1/16" in
No ranges it must be exact to these numbes.
( these numbers are a very good street alignment numbers )
Make sure you are at running tire temp, not cold tire temp of 32 psi.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,847
Likes: 795
From: Longview Texas
Originally Posted by Kale
Steering wheel feels solid. I'm going to buy a floor jack and check the wheels for play when I get home.
If you find the cam bolts are tightened to the correct torque, and the wheel is off center, also check the tie rod end adjusting nuts. Any change in camber will affect the toe in, but even if just the toe in changes, it will make the wheel off center. Toe in is always adjusted last, and you have to make the adjustments equal on both sides to center the wheel.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 51,505
Likes: 6
From: Sacramento CA
It's a Dealer. Even if they have an inferior machine, I can't imagine that would cause it to change after the fact.
Can I check my tie-rod ends and such myself easily enough?
If those are good, I'll just pay someone else to align it and eat the $80.
*edit,
Well, pretty much everyone has Hunter machines.
The Corvette speciality shop probably has better, but they want $180 for alignments.
The local firestone will do lifetime alignment for $170...
But they have a hunter.
Can I check my tie-rod ends and such myself easily enough?
If those are good, I'll just pay someone else to align it and eat the $80.
*edit,
Well, pretty much everyone has Hunter machines.
The Corvette speciality shop probably has better, but they want $180 for alignments.
The local firestone will do lifetime alignment for $170...
But they have a hunter.
Last edited by Kale; Oct 19, 2006 at 04:04 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 26,345
Likes: 232
From: SoCal
Originally Posted by Kale
The local firestone will do lifetime alignment for $170...
.
.
I would make the dealer do it again. Then go with the service manager and make sure torque is correct and also mark the adjusters as mentioned above.
DH
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Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 51,505
Likes: 6
From: Sacramento CA
update: They offered to refund my money. 
But the service guy said he saw them do the work, and is sure it was right, and is concerned that the steering gear might be the culprit.
how's that sound?
But the service guy said he saw them do the work, and is sure it was right, and is concerned that the steering gear might be the culprit.
how's that sound?
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,726
Likes: 368
From: Montoursville Pa
Originally Posted by Kale
update: They offered to refund my money.
But the service guy said he saw them do the work, and is sure it was right, and is concerned that the steering gear might be the culprit.
how's that sound?
But the service guy said he saw them do the work, and is sure it was right, and is concerned that the steering gear might be the culprit.
how's that sound?
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 51,505
Likes: 6
From: Sacramento CA
Fortunately, the car still has warranty so I'm not out any bones whichever way this goes.... He said he remembers the tie rods being tight, etc. But we'll see how it goes this weekend.
a bad tire couldnt cause this could it?
a bad tire couldnt cause this could it?
Intermediate
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 39
Likes: 1
From: Alameda CA
I've had my 99 coupe for 3 years, and during that time have had 4 alignments - for various reasons - new tires, new wheel hub, etc.
2 were had done at tire shops that also did alignments. Both times the car handled poorly afterwards. The other 2 were at Frame and Axel joints - one in NY and the other in California. Both F&A shops did great jobs - the car felt like a different animal afterwards. My point is that the F&A shops are specialists. I've read where alignments are not that diffiicult to do, that any place with the right equipment should be able to do a decent job, but I dunno - I'm gonna stick with the specialists from now on. Good luck with yours.
2 were had done at tire shops that also did alignments. Both times the car handled poorly afterwards. The other 2 were at Frame and Axel joints - one in NY and the other in California. Both F&A shops did great jobs - the car felt like a different animal afterwards. My point is that the F&A shops are specialists. I've read where alignments are not that diffiicult to do, that any place with the right equipment should be able to do a decent job, but I dunno - I'm gonna stick with the specialists from now on. Good luck with yours.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 41,066
Likes: 9,835
From: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Kale,
Do you do attend HPDEs or do a lot of autocrossing? If so your lower control arm bushings may be shot. After 6 years and 24K miles with a fair amount of HPDEs and autocrosses on my 97 the dealer could not get my car to align to the specs I gave them. Since they could not get near the Caster number I told them to inspect all of the suspension pieces. The lead tech found the lower control arms had slid backwards on the bushings (far enough to be in metal to metal contact with the cradle) and could move forwards and backwards on the bushings. This changed camber and caster settings as well as toe while I was driving.
Bill
Do you do attend HPDEs or do a lot of autocrossing? If so your lower control arm bushings may be shot. After 6 years and 24K miles with a fair amount of HPDEs and autocrosses on my 97 the dealer could not get my car to align to the specs I gave them. Since they could not get near the Caster number I told them to inspect all of the suspension pieces. The lead tech found the lower control arms had slid backwards on the bushings (far enough to be in metal to metal contact with the cradle) and could move forwards and backwards on the bushings. This changed camber and caster settings as well as toe while I was driving.
Bill
Tech Contributor
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 41,066
Likes: 9,835
From: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Kale,
Do you do attend HPDEs or do a lot of autocrossing? If so your lower control arm bushings may be shot. After 6 years and 24K miles with a fair amount of HPDEs and autocrosses on my 97 the dealer could not get my car to align to the specs I gave them. Since they could not get near the Caster number I told them to inspect all of the suspension pieces. The lead tech found the lower control arms had slid backwards on the bushings (far enough to be in metal to metal contact with the cradle) and could move forwards and backwards on the bushings. This changed camber and caster settings as well as toe while I was driving.
Bill
Do you do attend HPDEs or do a lot of autocrossing? If so your lower control arm bushings may be shot. After 6 years and 24K miles with a fair amount of HPDEs and autocrosses on my 97 the dealer could not get my car to align to the specs I gave them. Since they could not get near the Caster number I told them to inspect all of the suspension pieces. The lead tech found the lower control arms had slid backwards on the bushings (far enough to be in metal to metal contact with the cradle) and could move forwards and backwards on the bushings. This changed camber and caster settings as well as toe while I was driving.
Bill