Patriot heads vs high dollar
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Lenexa Kansas
Patriot heads vs high dollar
I have run some searches and haven't found much discussion on Patriot heads vs higher dollar heads like AFR's. I am in the process of choosing a head/cam package, and I am currently leading towards TR's Cheatr cam, and I am trying to determine whether I should go with TR's package, which includes AFR heads, or whether I should buy the cam and go with Patriot's LS6 heads. I have found one forum member with the Cheatr cam and Patriot's, and am awaiting advice from him. He kicked out 375 horse, but I haven't seen his graph to see how it compares to the one on TR's website. Their graph for their package shows a peak hp of 395 through stock headers/exhaust, and I'm trying to determine whether the AFR's are worth 20 more horse, or whether Thunder Racing has some inflated #'s. I also want to see the Patriot's torque curve, because I'm definitely not just looking at peak numbers; I want a nice, broad torque curve. Anyway, if anyone could give me the skinny on Patriot's, and help me to understand whether or not AFR has some additional benefit to justify their higher cost, I would greatly appreciate it.
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,058
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From: Roswell New Mexico
St. Jude Donor '07-'08
AFR are a much better quality head. The flow numbers are probably simmilar, but with AFR you get the quality, and the thicker deck on the head. Hands down AFR are better heads
The flip side the that is price. Are you willing to pay 700 dollars more for AFR heads, possibly more.
You may want to take a look at the PRC heads. They have excellent flow numbers, good quality parts, and are priced around the same as the patriots. WWW.TEXAS-SPEED.COM
If price was not an issue, then i would choose the AFR Heads, if price is a concern, PRC's.
The flip side the that is price. Are you willing to pay 700 dollars more for AFR heads, possibly more.
You may want to take a look at the PRC heads. They have excellent flow numbers, good quality parts, and are priced around the same as the patriots. WWW.TEXAS-SPEED.COM
If price was not an issue, then i would choose the AFR Heads, if price is a concern, PRC's.
Racer
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 391
Likes: 7
From: Garland Texas
Check out ls1 tech they have a lot more infomation on this than here. Most here love to spend lots of bucks.
I had the Patriot heads Stage II 243 on my vett and they where great.
Had the AFR 205 but went back to the Stage II heads had better mid and uppper tq.
The AFR had some problem but they are making them right big talke over at ls1 tech. So check it out just do search and you will find more infomation than you can read in one night.
Oh this is just my two cents not worth much!
I had the Patriot heads Stage II 243 on my vett and they where great. Had the AFR 205 but went back to the Stage II heads had better mid and uppper tq.The AFR had some problem but they are making them right big talke over at ls1 tech.
So check it out just do search and you will find more infomation than you can read in one night. Oh this is just my two cents not worth much!
Racer
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 278
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From: melbourne fl
i had this same question about 5 months ago. after comparing the numbers the answer became clear to me. flow numbers were very similar between the afr's and the patriot ls6 stage II 243's. however the afr's were $2200-$2500 and the patriots were $1135 shipped to my door. so i went with the patriot's. i am running them with the lg g5x2 cam with ls6 intake manifold, blackwing w/icebox, and lg street lt's. my m6 vette put down 428hp/396ftlbs in 104deg texas weather. i have had absolutely no problems including starting it in freezing temps the other day. if i were you i would go with the patriots and spend the saved money on something else.
just my opinion.
phillip
just my opinion.
phillip
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Lenexa Kansas
i had this same question about 5 months ago. after comparing the numbers the answer became clear to me. flow numbers were very similar between the afr's and the patriot ls6 stage II 243's. however the afr's were $2200-$2500 and the patriots were $1135 shipped to my door. so i went with the patriot's. i am running them with the lg g5x2 cam with ls6 intake manifold, blackwing w/icebox, and lg street lt's. my m6 vette put down 428hp/396ftlbs in 104deg texas weather. i have had absolutely no problems including starting it in freezing temps the other day. if i were you i would go with the patriots and spend the saved money on something else.
just my opinion.
phillip
just my opinion.
phillip
Joey G, what's the story on the different lines on your dyno? Were they different tunes, or different components?
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From: Converse TX
Race Director
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From: Whippany NJ
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St. Jude Donor '08-'09
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If you're in no rush, I would save the extra money for AFR or TFS heads. It really is worth it. Those heads are priced for a reason... Theres alot more to heads than flow numbers on a piece of paper. Heads are a vital part of any motor and you truly get what you pay for when it comes to selecting the right manufacturer.
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From: St. Joseph MO
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Racer
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: East Brunswick NJ
I have honestly never seen a car make more power with Patriot heads then with other brand 243's.
I have also seen a 383 pick up more then 30HP by going from a Patriot 243 heads to CARTEK 243 heads.
Patriot heads are cheap for a reason, if you pay nearly 50K new for a Z06, why would you skimp on good quality heads. Weather they are AFR, TSP, ETP, CARTEK, etc I honestly believe that they will all makew more power and run better ET's then Patriot. Just my experience and just my oppinion.
I have also seen a 383 pick up more then 30HP by going from a Patriot 243 heads to CARTEK 243 heads.
Patriot heads are cheap for a reason, if you pay nearly 50K new for a Z06, why would you skimp on good quality heads. Weather they are AFR, TSP, ETP, CARTEK, etc I honestly believe that they will all makew more power and run better ET's then Patriot. Just my experience and just my oppinion.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Lenexa Kansas
Patriot heads are cheap for a reason, if you pay nearly 50K new for a Z06, why would you skimp on good quality heads. Weather they are AFR, TSP, ETP, CARTEK, etc I honestly believe that they will all makew more power and run better ET's then Patriot. Just my experience and just my oppinion.
But seriously, I don't have a problem paying a premium for AFR's. I just really like to know that when I'm shelling out a premium, I'm really getting a superior product. If AFR's will net me more power, I'm not opposed to buying them. Since you are a believer in "you get what you pay for", could you tell me what aspects of AFR's are better? Would I get better torque throughout the curve, or would they just function better at high rpm's? I'm looking for some red meat here. Thanks.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Virginia Beach
CI 3-5-6-7-8 Veteran
The advantage of the ETP or new TFS heads are that they have a narrower valve angle which allows bigger cams w/o flycutting the pistons.
I'm have a G5-X2 114 cam on order and down the road will pop for some AFR 205's and a FAST 90/90 ported.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Lenexa Kansas
AFR's are the first heads designed from the ground up, not just re-worked GM castings. They supposedly achieve the same flow numbers as other ported heads but through a smaller port, this increases port velocity which in turn makes more power and far more mid range torque.
For the same price, I can go with the Cheatr/AFR combo, or put the same cam in with Patriot's and LT headers. If what you are saying is true, I'd be better off going with the AFR's for now, because I could always add headers down the road and have a better performing package.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
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From: State of Confusion.
The AFR results speak for themselves, but I think what he wants to know if they are $700+ dollars better. The answer is that only he can decide that. To me, to make an extra 10 rwhp wouldn't be, but that's just me! In my opinion, if I had no budget (wishful thinking), I'd go for the ECS TFS heads. They made 500+ rwhp on Mike's Z06 with a top secret small cam.
Good Luck!
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
Are you going to do the work yourself or have a builder tuner do it? If your having a buildr/ tuner do the work, what is their suggestions?? what have they recomended in the past??
Personally I have PP LS6 heads and a small comp cam. Nothing to fancy or $$$$, I run a little over 400 RWHP and 405 RWTQ.
I did not want to spend the big $$$$ at that time. A new engine is in the works for 07.
Personally I have PP LS6 heads and a small comp cam. Nothing to fancy or $$$$, I run a little over 400 RWHP and 405 RWTQ.
I did not want to spend the big $$$$ at that time. A new engine is in the works for 07.
Race Director
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From: Whippany NJ
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St. Jude Donor '08-'09
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But its not just 10RWHP. its the bigger gain in overall TQ and HP over the entire rpm range with AFRs or any top dollar head.