Any Body Had Experience With Red Devil Ceramic Coated Titanium Rotors?

 

what are these guys claiming...

Ok I looked it up

1 - D/S rotors are no good for aggressive driving. Every place will have a * stating that and this is the first place that I saw that claims the D/S are better for racing "The drilled and slotted rotors are used more for racing applications. The plain rotors are recommended for standard street use." I claim because D/S rotors have much more tendency to crack then solid.

2 - they are ~$4500 for a set of rotors - lets see that is equal to 183 NAPA rotors. I dont think they will outlast 183 NAPA rotors nor do I think the will work any better.

3 - their claim of stopping power is I can throw on a set of DTC-70 brake pads that will outstop almost any pad. Just because they say it stops better than stock big deal just swap your OEM pads for Z06 pads and you will stop better than stock.


4 - they claim to be 8lbs 12 oz. Stock rotors are 17 lbs. I dont think they are 8lbs with the hats.

Ok enough of me ranting...

 

Wicked Weasel, with all due respect, here is an obviously new to the forum individual asking for someone with experience relative to his question and, instead, you provide a response that clearly indicates your "experience" is limited to a review of their web site from an obviously biased perspective.

You're certainly as entitled to your opinion as anyone, but the original poster shouldn't be mis-led into thinking Red Devil offers a bad product or mis-represents that product.

Point 1: yes, all those "places" you refer to do indicate drilled rotors are not good for racing applications, but I would venture to say all those places are referring to steel/iron disks. Titanium is not a ferrous metal and has completely different characteristics relative to heat absorption and stress cracking. And, if drilled/slotted disks of any material were bad, why would Porsche put them on the GT3 which is clearly a factory race car?

Point 2: yep, they're pricey. So is the $10K ceramic brake option on that GT3 I mention above. No one ever said racing is cheap. Are they worth it? Depends on what you're trying to do with the car. If you're consistently on the podium but just short of winning, maybe so.

Point 3: you're pretty much correct here, their stopping power can be equalled with a much less expensive aftermarket setup. On the other hand, it's all rotating mass and less is certainly better - car prep is after all a game of inches and ounces.

Point 4: this is why I responded to your response - you don't "think" they're 8lbs. Well, they are - specs on the web site are accurate. And I would think you as a Corvette driver would understand what can be accomplished with titanium given the huge weight benefit of the Z06 titanium exhaust. The weight savings with these rotors is all unsprung weight and makes an enormous difference in the handling potential of the car if the rest of the set-up is right. It's the reason, again, why Porsche has that $10K option on the GT3.

A downside is these rotors require use of the specific pads Red Devil has designed and they cannot be used with any other pads, so you're locked in to them when you go with their rotors. That said, if you're looking for the ultimate in total overall performance these rotors are indeed hard to beat. On the other hand, if you're running HPDE's or autocrossing these are probably way overkill. But they are a good product.

 

Yes ppl have used them. Do they work? Some what.

DO they stop better the normal rotors and race pads? the first few stops somewhat. Repeated hard stops, not really.

worth the cost? that is up to you.

 

My expereince comes from numerous hours on the race track where a true test can be done. I have talked to many people, gotten many emails, and seen first hand how these rotors do not out perform regular rotors for the normal weekend warrior. If this was coming from a professional race team with an endless amount of money my opinion may change.

I apologize if it is direct and to the point, but I hate to see people waste money on a car that already has a heavy corvette tax.

 

Frankly, there appeal is from a huge weight savings. They are also very very expensive.

 

I happen to have a rear rotor handy and it weighed 7 pounds so I would imagine their weights are pretty accurate. I have set up and driven a car with these and I personaly never liked them. We had to send the rotors back because the coating was flaking off the rotors. It almost looked like a bunch of small stress cracks. As many times we tried to bleed them they really never felt solid. I dont think they can compare to a set of Stop Techs in any way for twice the price. This is just my opinion.

 

Hey guys, thanks for your replies and help. My thinking is that the Red Devil street set-up would improve braking performance and with the reduction in unsprung weight and rotating mass would increase acceleration, have some payback with better mpg,and be just be a little different from everybody else.

Does anybody have any feedback of driving with the Red Devil set-up on a daily basis?

Thanks again!

TOMTOM

 

I CANNOT see how Titanium rotors would IMPROVE braking performance, and would more likely believe titanium will hurt it.

Here's why:

A brake is a device that converts the energy of your forward motion to heat energy. A good brake is basically a good "heat sink" which is why cast iron is commonly used as it is an excellent heat sink. The other advantage of iron is that it transfers heat quickly (think of an iron skillet used for cooking.)

One way to measure a metals ability to store heat is to look at its "specific heat capacity".

According to : http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/sp...als-d_152.html

Iron 0.46 (kJ/kg K)

Titanium 0.54 (kJ/kg K)

Now at first you might say ... well Ti has a higher heat capacity than Iron, and at first glance that's true. BUT, remember that Ti is LIGHTER than iron, so using the above numbers that a Ti rotor weighs about half of an iron rotor, a Ti rotor has about HALF the heat capacity of the same size iron rotor ..... not good when you're stopping from a "high" speed, or coming down a hill, or repeated applications of the brakes where they don't have a lot of time to cool between applications.

Then look at the thermal conductivity of a metal (how fast can it transfer stored heat to the air when the brakes are OFF).

Iron 80.4 W/(m·K)

Titanium 21.9 W/(m·K)

See http://www.reade.com/fr/Reference-%1...-elements.html for verification

This not only means Ti will take longer to cool, but also think about what happens to a cold metal rotor when you apply the brakes. The rotor surface that is swept by the pads gets hot very quickly. Then the heat transfers deeper into the rotor, eventually reaching the internal cooling vanes. If the metal has a low transfer rate, the surface gets hot fast (leading to brake fade) while the inner parts of the rotor remain cool. Not surprising people have reported cracking on Ti rotors ... it even happens with iron ones at times.

So, a titanium rotor will absorb half the heat of an iron rotor, and will take about 4 times longer to disipate the same amount of heat ... can you spell "BRAKE FADE" ??????

Seems like you'd be spending a boatload of money for one very poor solution.

 

Not worth the money

 

I should have followed Wicked Weasel's process and looked at their web site first ....





They have so many bogus claims on there, that I'm surprised they aren't offering that "turbo" for your intake that gets your engine 100 MPG !!!

Try this one from http://www.reddevilbrakes.com/page/page/884992.htm

"The weight of our Short Track Rotors saves approximately 35 pounds over the cast iron rotors. This is like getting 15 to 20 horsepower in the engine .... "

Yeah ... right ... let's work that one out ....

car weighs 3,200 pounds and has a 400 HP engine (close to stock Z06 numbers) that means the weight to HP ratio is 8 lbs per HP.

If you knock off 35 pounds, the ratio changes to 7.9125 (3165/400)

Or, if we keep the same weight 3200 lbs, how much added HP is needed to get the ratio back to 7.9125 ?? ANSWER 404.4 HP

That's a gain 0f ... I'll be generous ... 5 HP .... NOT 15 to 20 ....

Another claim .....

"Our Rotor and Pad combinations shorten the stopping distance from 125 feet to a whopping 85 to 90 feet average from 60 MPH to 0"

This is located at .... http://www.reddevilbrakes.com/page/page/898389.htm

Take your Corvette out right now and try maximum braking effort from 60 MPH .... hear the ABS turning on ???? Of course you do ... the stopping distance of a Corvette (or virtually any car for that matter) is dependant on two factors ... weight of the vehicle and tire adhesion.

ANYONE claiming that changing brakes on a Corvette without changing tires will reduce stopping distance by over 30 percent is FLAT OUT LYING !!!!!

One good thing, I did get a few laughs reading the site ....

 

about two years ago the owner of the company was on here trying to defend his product. Finnaly he said they were not for 3200 cars but for 2200 lb cars. Never heard from him again.