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Old Jun 20, 2007 | 01:42 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Mike04
I'm in the process of installing mine. I think this is a good post to make people aware that it doesn't hurt to take a look at the clearance.

DTE makes very reputable products that I am happy to run on my car. This post shouldn't hurt their reputation. It makes us aware of a possible issue on some cars.
Thank you and our positive reputation and good customer service we've spent years building on this board and in the Corvette Community has already been proven for years and we'll not change a thing.

Phil
Old Jun 20, 2007 | 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by RED99
You are right, it doesn't and wasn't intended to hurt there reputation. But there comments sure isn't helping there customer service reputation.
So much for trying to show them what I thought was a good idea.
Your actions in later posts state otherwise and as stated earlier, our potitive customer service and reputation has been proven WELL in the past and to date.

BTW- When did I *EVER* knock your idea?? You can re-read above what I said right after and *NONE* of it was knocking anyone in any way. Again, *YOU* are making this out to be much more than what it is and *YOU* have made negative statements towards yourself, as they have *NOT* came from me in anything I've said to date.

Phil
Old Jun 20, 2007 | 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Rag-Top Rick
WW, it`s gettin a little warm in here!

I have to agree with you on this one Red, the vendor makes great products but could have been more open to customer feedback on their products!
We have *ALWAYS* had open dialogue with our customers and have changed many items in the past to suit their desires, so to make a blanket statement like this that is completely false, is entirely inaccurate and completely out of line.

However, we will *NOT* deal with folks who are complete azzes on the phone, by email or otherwise, as I don't have time for that garbage from anyone. We're all men here...well, at least most are...) Anyone who knows me, knows me to be very fair and honest in everything we do here and that has been the hallmark to our success to date. However, I will *NOT*, under any circumstances fold to someone's rude online pressure like some of the slander that's flying around in this thread right now, nor will I ever. If someone has a problem with something, then let them call here to discuss it, rather than hiding behind a computer screen.

Phil
Old Jun 20, 2007 | 02:09 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by RED99
This sums it all up.
Arrogant (pronounced /ˈærəgənt/) is an adjective that may refer to having excessive pride in oneself. A person who is arrogant may exaggerate their own worth or importance in an overbearing manner.

Feedback is what makes a great product. If the manufactor isn't opened minded, and takes there customers problems into consideration, then how can they excel into having a great product? What gets me, I never even asked for anthing from DTE,a nd didn't want anything. I just came on here to show people what I did because of the problems I had, and was hoping DTE would look at it and maybe say something like, "Hey, nice job", sorry that you had trouble with it, but glad you got it resolved. I'll shoot this over to our engineering department to look at. Instead, I get bashed and preached on how their products never have had problems, and I screwed this up by welding on it. Well, DTE welded on it too. I use to fabricate large industrial heat treating furnaces, and I know all about welding, and how it pulls. And these bosses would had to be pointing up. They was perp as the day they was made. The bosses wasn't welded on the top, which is where it would have to been to pull the bosses up. The problem is the centerline of the strut rods is up to high. That's all there is too it. And there is plenty of room to drop them down 3/8" - 1/2". Simple fix.
Now, I am hearing more and more people with rubbing issues. And still, DTE refuses to acknowledge the problem. I just can't believe the response I am getting from them. To tell you the truth, I am shocked. I thought they was better than this.
As I said before, no one was arrogent about anything and like I've said 3 times to you now, don't make it more than what it is. *ALL* of the negative statements and implications you stated that we've done towards you have *ALL* came directly from you, yourself, *NOT* me, so one again, don't put words into my mouth that we're not said just to fuel your little, trite bashing thread you've got going here.

Feedback is what makes a great product. If the manufactor isn't opened minded, and takes there customers problems into consideration, then how can they excel into having a great product?
The first part is correct and we've already made changes to our products in the past to suit our customers. Did you read what was posted about that earlier, or did you choose to neglect those statements to continue with the bash in this thread? Secondly, one of the main reasons this company is so successful to date is because we *DO* listen to our customers, but like I said also before, I won't listen to anyone who is being an azz just because they can or just because they think that will get them better results. One can attract more bees with honey, than with vinegar.

Instead, I get bashed
*ABSOLUTELY WRONG!!!!!!* When in any of my posts did I "Bash" you with regards to anything? That's right.....*NONE* and as I said before multiple times now, the *ONLY* negative things said about you have come from your mouth/hands, *NOT* mine.

And still, DTE refuses to acknowledge the problem.
Your wrong again, as I already addressed this to you once now.... We did in fact make changes to our product design as our customers requested a number of years ago, so we *DID* acknowledge an issue there. Once again, do you actually take the time to read what is posted or are you just completely ignoring it and shooting from the hip to once again fuel your bash thread?

and preached on how their products never have had problems,
I *NEVER* di either of these things either.... Where are you getting this from???

I just can't believe the response I am getting from them. To tell you the truth, I am shocked.
What negative "response"??? I merely stated to you what the cause of the bracket distortion came from and what changes were made to the bracket to correct the issues some folks were seeing and you completely twisted that around by stating things I supposedly said to you that I've never said, even though I reminded you on 3 separate occasions/posts now that those statements had nothing behind them but information, but you still refuse to listen, hear or acknowledge that in an effort to keep fuel on your thread...

Phil
Old Jun 20, 2007 | 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Pewter Dream
When was this supposed modification to your braces made, Phil? My two month old DTE brace rubs and RUBS HARD on both sides of the car. It was installed and torqued exactly according to the instructions and my car is not even lowered. If I can buy this "new" brace that lowers the upper rods significantly, by all means let me know how much and how soon I can have it.
For those with this problem ( and I doubt that a new brace will fix it, but you never know) I would STRONGLY recommend that anyone installing this brace do the modification described in the first post. To do anything else is to risk damage to those metal fuel lines under the car. I am even getting noise transferred up into the car from the contact with the rods. The brace is quite simply very poorly designed in this one area, and needs to be modified by DTE to clear the underside of our cars. I am pretty scared of what the brace is going to do to my fuel lines over the long haul....I am sure that DTE will likely take me on for saying all of this, but if you do praise their products, then they have nothing but the best for you....praise them and they are very nice people -- to do anything else is to risk their wrath....go ahead, Phil...............make me a satisfied customer, please?
Your another whole new peice of work Glenn and you of anyone should have *NOTHING* bad to say about me or DTE after what we tried to do for you!

If you had such a problem with the differential strut on your car, why didn't you call me?

I know why- because we caught you in a lie to us, you hung up on Jenny in mid-sentence and you're pissed about the fact that we would not warranty your new 3.73 differential you purchased from us *AFTER* your super-tuner did a huge burnout on the street with it, including your own burnouts with the thing *RIGHT AFTER* it was installed!


Then, before you and I knew of the burn-out thing, I stated to you on the phone that I would *GIVE* you 2 more bottles of Redline lubricant to service your differential with to help you out, even though it wasn't DTE's fault the differential failed and that I would send them to you overnight so you coule get back on the road. You stated to me that it wasn't necessary, because you found out that your trusted installer damaged your differential from the long burnout before the break-in period, so you were going to have them fix the problem they created. I said no problem, at least we knew what caused the problem and for you to let me know if you needed any further assistance.

You then called back and changed your mind, stating that you wanted the free lubricant anyway!! We told you that the free lubricant offer didn't apply if you already knew your super-tuner damaged your differential, because *YOU* stated that they were going to repair their problem they created. You got immediately pissed and hung up on Jenny in mid-sentence like a spoiled brat child not getting his way!!!!

Why did you do this after we tried to help you?? We try to give you assistance out of good will and you turn right around and smack us in the face for it????!!!!! Nice touch- especially hanging up on my wife, when she did nothing wrong to you either!!!! You are *REALLY* a piece of work!!!

Then, you come on this board a few days ago asking about the diff. whine your super-tuner created and that you really "liked the guys" who did your install, *EVEN THOUGH THEY PERMANANTLY DAMAGED YOUR DIFFERENTIAL BY BEATING ON YOUR CAR!!!!!* http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1722592

Yet, you smack our face for trying to help you resolve your differential whine issue that was created by someone else!!!! When everyone told you to fire that tuner and get them to pay for it, you completely clammed up and didn't say another word..... I'm sure you'll edit your posts in those threads like you like to do to better hedge your B.S., but you are what you are.


So now you ask if we can satisfy you?????? We tried Glenn and you treated us like complete crap for it... You are impossible and an unbelievable piece of work...!!!


Phil
Old Jun 20, 2007 | 02:32 PM
  #46  
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[QUOTE=RED99;1560727282]That's funny. According to Post #6, they have hundreds of cars all across the USA and abroad with out any problem at all.

You must have welded on your upper brace or did something wrong, so

According to Post #6, they have hundreds of cars all across the USA and abroad with out any problem at all.
That is correct- 313 A4 kits to be exact.

Phil
Old Jun 20, 2007 | 02:34 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by AMERICAN_HP
Mines right up against it as well. The vibration is driving me fluking NUTS.. I will be doing some tweaking in the next coming weeks.
If you had a problem, all you had to do was simply call, instead of participating in a bash fest. How can we help if you don't ask??? Joining in on something like this before giving us a chance to assist certainly doesn't grease the wheels of progress that's for sure.


Phil
Old Jun 20, 2007 | 02:39 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by RED99
Yeah I just got a PM from someone else with the same problem. So maybe it's not my exhaust. Doesn't surprise me now. This brace looks like it was never revised any from the day it left the desk on paper.
This brace looks like it was never revised any from the day it left the desk on paper.
Once again wrong and your statements are completely innacurate. As I've told you already twice now, we did revised the bracket design due to folks' input already and if you would have bothered to nicely request a visual photo of those differences, instead of coming on here and belittling our product and us with your grossly, innacurate blanket statements like you have, that you would have seen what we're referring to. Instead, you chose the aggressive route, which gets no one, no where.


Phil
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Old Jun 20, 2007 | 02:42 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Pewter Dream
Go For it RED99!!! I'd love to see your brace become the number one best seller with the BEST customer service you can offer......knowledgeable, friendly, willing to take input from customers, all that has been missing in the past........
he BEST customer service you can offer......knowledgeable, friendly, willing to take input from customers, all that has been missing in the past........
Oh....you mean like that same type of service that you described above that we offered to you, for which you were rude with us on the phone, smacked our face for it and hung up on my wife while she was trying to give you the very good customer service you desired??? As I said before, you're a real piece of work....


Phil
Old Jun 20, 2007 | 02:43 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by 99Z51R
I too had this problem and my brace is less than 2 years old, and I didn't modify anything. I just took some thin felt and put up above the bars since it was driving me nuts also, but I know this is a temporary fix. I'd be interested in a new designed brace as well

Eric
You and one other have been the only civil folks in this thread and if you need some assistance, give us a call. We can't help you if we don't know you're having an issue for whatever reason.

Phil
Old Jun 20, 2007 | 02:45 PM
  #51  
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Phil, you started this yourself by your very first post trying to defend yourself for what reason I don't know, when you wrote saying how you have NEVER had an issue with ANY of your braces that hadn't been modified. And was trying to blame the cause on a piece that was welded in between the boss's. Fact is fact, that weld had nothing to do with the problem. Then when Tom Urlich comes on, then you admit then that there was some problem with the "Earlier" desingns. But you didn't bother to ask me if mine was an early design. All you knew, it wasn't your fault, even looking at it from your PC and not even seeing the part.
Now you are saying the problem has been resolved, but I still hear people having the same problem, and telling that they can't see no difference in the brace.
The only thing negative here is your willingness to admit that there is problems with your design. Hey, nobody is perfect. But if people works together, then we can all make a darn near perfect product. But when you are closed minded and will not listed to what people are telling on you here, and keep insisting there is nothing wrong with your brace now, then you are just being pig headed.
Old Jun 20, 2007 | 02:51 PM
  #52  
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So, anyone want to buy a brace or differential from this guy?

Like I could predict the future:
.I am sure that DTE will likely take me on for saying all of this, but if you do praise their products, then they have nothing but the best for you....praise them and they are very nice people -- to do anything else is to risk their wrath....go ahead, Phil...............make me a satisfied customer, please?

Phil....you KNOW the truth here and have chosen to ignore it...if we talked to you the way you talk to us, the moderators would have pulled this thread. Your wife, after interupting me three or four times and talking over me at least that much.......yes, I finally hung up, as the conversation was going no where and she simply was not listening to me.........did you train her in customer service?
Your personal attacks are unwarranted and unprofessional, and your bash on Law Enforcement in unconsciounable..........
Folks....we here on the forum CAN have an effect on DTE's business, and I for one think that we should......
So, where did you address that your brace is ruining our cars and offer to make it right, Phil? If you can get it so my brace is not bashing my fuel lines...like several others here.....let's talk....

Last edited by C6NRED; Jun 20, 2007 at 02:58 PM.
Old Jun 20, 2007 | 02:52 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Pewter Dream
Anyone notice that ol' DTE has been absent from this discussion for a while? You can only blame your customers for so long before it starts to sound like you should have taken the blame all along............especially when all of us with the brace crushing our fuel lines begin to chime in......

Phil, I KNOW you read Corvette Forum threads that have anything to do with DTE....are you out there and are you willing to make all of our braces fit right????? Would love to hear from DTE in THIS forum with a reasonable fix --- you've got your work cut out for you to make this right for all of us whose braces simply do not fit right......C'mon ---- you can do it!!!
Look at the number of readers of this post (nearing 600) and imagine that they all would have bought a brace from you.......if it fit right.....

And ---- THANK YOU to the moderators for allowing this thread to continue. I think that the members here have conducted themselves well and that this is important information to get out there...again, thank you moderators --- it was a class act to leave this thread up.........
Phil, I KNOW you read Corvette Forum threads that have anything to do with DTE....
You're correct and that is how we caught you in a flat-out lie trying to get your new differential warrantied by us *AFTER* you and your installer had been doing burn-outs with this thing before the break-in was complete. Unfortunately, it's dishonest, shady folks like yourself that forces us to have to adopt the policies we do, just to protect ourselves from fraudulent claims....

BTW- The damage you *THINK* you're doing by driving the bash wagon, isn't working.... We've sold 4 more A4 kits this week alone just because of this thread and once folks understand the product better and understand us better from speaking with us on the phone, they buy right away and completely dismiss the garbage that is flying around in this thread spewed by you and others.

I'm glad this thread has remained open also, because it's given me a chance to retort a mountain of garbage that's in this thread.

Our company has continually grown year after year- not because of our products alone, but because of our customer service, our integrity, our passion for the Corvette and the willingness to work with others who are as respectful to us, as they want to receive in return. We will not change a thing.


Best Regards,
Phil
Old Jun 20, 2007 | 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by DynoTech Engineering
Once again wrong and your statements are completely innacurate. As I've told you already twice now, we did revised the bracket design due to folks' input already and if you would have bothered to nicely request a visual photo of those differences, instead of coming on here and belittling our product and us with your grossly, innacurate blanket statements like you have, that you would have seen what we're referring to. Instead, you chose the aggressive route, which gets no one, no where.


Phil
I don't really care what your new brace looks like Phil. I have already solved the issue myself. But the other folks may want to see it. So I will ask for all of the others that has some doubt. May they "Please", see some pics of your before and after design changes.
And I appologize if you took this has bashing. That's not the intention. But somehow, I think you know that.

Have a good day.

Jim
Old Jun 20, 2007 | 03:07 PM
  #55  
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So, Phil......the reasonable fix for my brace that you are offering is????

This has nothing to do with the diff, and you know that....and you did NOT catch me in a lie, as I admitted to you I did not know about what the mechanic had done to my car prior to asking you why my diff was whining....My professional courtesy prohibits me from responding to you in the way you deserve........Jeez, Phil....your defensivness makes me think that you doth protest too much.......

Again.....exactly what is the solution you are offering to fix our braces? I am waiting and listening.........simple request...should be a simple answer.
Old Jun 20, 2007 | 03:09 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by RED99
Phil, you started this yourself by your very first post trying to defend yourself for what reason I don't know, when you wrote saying how you have NEVER had an issue with ANY of your braces that hadn't been modified. And was trying to blame the cause on a piece that was welded in between the boss's. Fact is fact, that weld had nothing to do with the problem. Then when Tom Urlich comes on, then you admit then that there was some problem with the "Earlier" desingns. But you didn't bother to ask me if mine was an early design. All you knew, it wasn't your fault, even looking at it from your PC and not even seeing the part.
Now you are saying the problem has been resolved, but I still hear people having the same problem, and telling that they can't see no difference in the brace.
The only thing negative here is your willingness to admit that there is problems with your design. Hey, nobody is perfect. But if people works together, then we can all make a darn near perfect product. But when you are closed minded and will not listed to what people are telling on you here, and keep insisting there is nothing wrong with your brace now, then you are just being pig headed.
Phil, you started this yourself by your very first post trying to defend yourself for what reason I don't know, when you wrote saying how you have NEVER had an issue with ANY of your braces that hadn't been modified.
No, I told you that we did not have any problems with our A4 differential struts in regular production for over a year, but after a couple of folks called us to make us aware of a couple of issues, we made changes to suit their cars. *THAT* is what I said and you can quote if you'd like.

And was trying to blame the cause on a piece that was welded in between the boss's.
Again, don't look into it more than what it is... I merely and simply stated that if a differential strut or engine or transmission or any other component from a manufacturer was altered differently than how it came originally from that manufacturer, than all bets were off if it would fit the application or not. You did *NOT* state, in your first posts, that it had been modified in any way, *UNTIL* I brought it up and folks need to hear both sides to make an informed decision based on *ALL* the accurate information presented- not just from one side.

Then when Tom Urlich comes on, then you admit then that there was some problem
I didn't have to "admit" anything!!! As I said 4 times now, it was *OVER A YEAR* after the A4 kit was released that we had any calls on fitment and then those calls were only 2 out of nearly 87 kits sold. There wasn't a problem with our kits for most cars, but there we're some tight fitment in *some* cars- hence the reason we made changes to fit those cars also.

But you didn't bother to ask me if mine was an early design.
I didn't know that was a requirement? Nor did you show me either. Instead, on the 3rd post after I stated what the problem with modified parts was, you attacked me in saying, "you don't take criticisms well do you"? Now what was that for?????? I made no derogatory statements towards you, yet you come at me on the offensive!!! I even tried to remind you what I said about no ego's being here, but you refused to acknowledge it and kept on with your bash thread for your own enjoyment.

and telling that they can't see no difference in the brace.
So how can anyone "see a difference" in what we offer now to what you have when no one has had the common courtesy to call here and ask- yet they have all the guts in the world to hide behind a computer screen to take pot-shots at the thread to keep things stirred up for their own reading enjoyment. I don't care to deal with people like that in any capacity, what-so-ever.

The only thing negative here is your willingness to admit that there is problems with your design.
Can you read???? Please take the time to re-read what I'v posted, because for some reason, you can't comprehend what I've been trying to informa you of all-along.

But when you are closed minded and will not listed to what people are telling
Please read above text, as it applied here also.



Phil
Old Jun 20, 2007 | 03:27 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Pewter Dream
So, anyone want to buy a brace or differential from this guy?

Like I could predict the future:
.I am sure that DTE will likely take me on for saying all of this, but if you do praise their products, then they have nothing but the best for you....praise them and they are very nice people -- to do anything else is to risk their wrath....go ahead, Phil...............make me a satisfied customer, please?

Phil....you KNOW the truth here and have chosen to ignore it...if we talked to you the way you talk to us, the moderators would have pulled this thread. Your wife, after interupting me three or four times and talking over me at least that much.......yes, I finally hung up, as the conversation was going no where and she simply was not listening to me.........did you train her in customer service?
Your personal attacks are unwarranted and unprofessional, and your bash on Law Enforcement in unconsciounable..........
Folks....we here on the forum CAN have an effect on DTE's business, and I for one think that we should......
So, where did you address that your brace is ruining our cars and offer to make it right, Phil? If you can get it so my brace is not bashing my fuel lines...like several others here.....let's talk....
Like I could predict the future:
.I am sure that DTE will likely take me on for saying all of this, but if you do praise their products, then they have nothing but the best for you....praise them and they are very nice people -- to do anything else is to risk their wrath....go ahead, Phil...............make me a satisfied customer, please?
You're right, when you come after someone with slander and lies like you've done to us in the past, of course you can expect it back. Stop posting like a spoiled child that doesn't get their way and act like a man online.

Phil....you KNOW the truth here and have chosen to ignore it
Can you too read??? It's funny how you speak of the "truth" since it's something not in your vocabulary or actions- we've dealt with your type before....

if we talked to you the way you talk to us,
*YOU DID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!* Need I remind you again??????

Your wife, after interupting me three or four times and talking over me at least that much..
You're flat-lying again!!! I was listening on the hands-free conference phone in the other office and you were a complete azz to her on the phone and you should be ashamed of yourself for speaking to a woman (a stranger no less ) like that!!!

yes, I finally hung up, as the conversation was going no where
You should *NEVER* hang up on anyone like that...period! That was the most disrespectful, rude phone conversations I've ever heard from a customer- even *AFTER* we're trying to help you!

as the conversation was going no where and she simply was not listening to me.........
You're exactly right it was going no where, because once you figured out that we we'ren't going to warranty a differential that you and your tuner destroyed before the break-in was complete, you got *VERY* rude and demanding to the point where you wouldn't listen to anyone, no matter who it was trying to speak. If you're going to point fingers at someone erroneously, you might take at the other 3 fingers on the same hand pointing back at you.

Your personal attacks are unwarranted and unprofessional, and your bash on Law Enforcement in unconsciounable..........
Again you're twisting things... I *NEVER* had any attackes toward you in this thread... In fact, I remained idle and calm watching you attack my company with your B.S., when you gave on your twisted, lying side to add to the fire. Also, I stated in this post that I expected more from *YOU* as a law officer to conduct yourself better than this, *NOT*, I repeat, *NOT* that I bashed law enforcement. I even have 4 family members in various levels of Law Enforcement, so don't put words into my mouth to make me look bad that came directly from you. Where in the world do you get this stuff from????

Phil

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To DTE A4 brace mod

Old Jun 20, 2007 | 03:29 PM
  #58  
DTE Powertrain's Avatar
DTE Powertrain
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,899
Likes: 6
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
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Originally Posted by RED99
I don't really care what your new brace looks like Phil. I have already solved the issue myself. But the other folks may want to see it. So I will ask for all of the others that has some doubt. May they "Please", see some pics of your before and after design changes.
And I appologize if you took this has bashing. That's not the intention. But somehow, I think you know that.

Have a good day.

Jim
You too Jim. Enjoy the vacation at Disneyland and all is water under the bridge between you and I as far as I'm concerned.

Best Regards,
Phil
Old Jun 20, 2007 | 03:34 PM
  #59  
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C6NRED
Le Mans Master
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,933
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From: The Beautiful Inland Empire WA.
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So, Phil...........the fix for my brace is???? Interesting that you quote everything but that..........act like a man and fix my brace. Please?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, Phil......the reasonable fix for my brace that you are offering is????
I repeat:
This has nothing to do with the diff, and you know that....and you did NOT catch me in a lie, as I admitted to you I did not know about what the mechanic had done to my car prior to asking you why my diff was whining....My professional courtesy prohibits me from responding to you in the way you deserve........Jeez, Phil....your defensivness makes me think that you doth protest too much.......Your personal attacks are getting a little on the weird side here, Phil....and your denials that you are attacking???
.I am sure that DTE will likely take me on for saying all of this, but if you do praise their products, then they have nothing but the best for you....praise them and they are very nice people -- to do anything else is to risk their wrath....go ahead, Phil...............make me a satisfied customer, please?
--- well I'll let others decide as they read through this thread.....I am the one here that has simply wanted my probems with my brace addressed......not the diff, as you know that I am fighting that on an entirely separate battle field with my mechanic...........I never addressed the diff here --- only the brace.

Again.....exactly what is the solution you are offering to fix our braces? I am waiting and listening.........simple request...should be a simple answer.

Last edited by C6NRED; Jun 20, 2007 at 03:52 PM.
Old Jun 20, 2007 | 03:45 PM
  #60  
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C6NRED
Le Mans Master
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,933
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From: The Beautiful Inland Empire WA.
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Post Deleted......its probably not worth it to continue to try to deal with this here......Phil is simply not going to offer a solution to our braces that will fix them.....



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