He runs 13.67 @ 101 in his A4. What can he possibly have to learn from Ranger about driving an MN6? 
Bad track times!!
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '12
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From: Central Florida
Gentle on our UK friends. Some of the timing gear used at their events is calibrated differently than ours.
Also true that OK owners generally lack the opportunity to gather a pack of Covettes at an event or rental and share technique tweaks or coaching tips that are instrumental in breaking through driving plateaus.
Ranger
Also true that OK owners generally lack the opportunity to gather a pack of Covettes at an event or rental and share technique tweaks or coaching tips that are instrumental in breaking through driving plateaus.
Ranger
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From: Central Florida
Finally, rather than diminishing the importance of a 60' time, I emphasized that a 6-speed-stick driver still has a lot to do once passed the 60' light. I believe most racers would agree with that.
I'd consider an auto-tranny, but just can't bring myself to settle for those sloooow shifts.
Ranger
Last edited by Ranger; Jun 25, 2007 at 04:56 PM.
Melting Slicks
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From: I have to return some videotapes
Gentle on our UK friends. Some of the timing gear used at their events is calibrated differently than ours.
Also true that OK owners generally lack the opportunity to gather a pack of Covettes at an event or rental and share technique tweaks or coaching tips that are instrumental in breaking through driving plateaus.
Ranger
Also true that OK owners generally lack the opportunity to gather a pack of Covettes at an event or rental and share technique tweaks or coaching tips that are instrumental in breaking through driving plateaus.
Ranger
I just think it's funny when noobs (which I still consider myself to be) come on here and argue with people like you without bothering to check you out. Your demeanor always impresses me in such instances.
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From: Central Florida
Keeping it civil usually improves the discussion.
Ranger
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From: East Meadow NY
St. Jude Donor '12
Shifting become paramount because you will lose if you miss a shift or bounce hard off the rev-limiter.
Instructor
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From: Barrie Ontario
I took my stock FRC (6spd no Auto option) to the track on Friday for the first time. I posted a best time of 13.20 at 109mph. It was hard to hook on runflats but if you slip the clutch at around 1500 to 2000rpm (dont smoke the clutch) your launches will be better and your time should improve. But nevertheless it is hard to hook on street tires.
matt
matt
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Verdad Gallardo
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and A4/6's have a lot of repeatability at the starting line. Cookie-cutter launches. I've beaten many a manual-shift solely because they blew the launch.
Even more reason for those with manual shift cars to learn to launch, first. Don't mod just to make up for bad technique.
Serious; why buy a manual shift car if one doesn't bother to
master it
I hear ya; but lets be frank... bracket racing is meant to "make it fair for everyone"; and not reward the faster car/driver.
Last edited by Mike Mercury; Jun 25, 2007 at 11:03 PM.
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From: Central Florida
97vetteman,
I propose a test of your espoused belief that little skill is required to get max acceleration from a manual-tranny Corvette.
It would be fitting, of course, for you to be the subject of the test.
I propose that you personally drive a stock 6-speed-manual C5 Corvette down the quarter-mile and post the ET/Trap and time-slip splits you attain.
Thousands of owners in the USA have done that and the bell-shaped curve of performance is pretty well established.
Needs to be a stock car for comparative purposes. We'll be sporting and give you say 20 passes to get the kinks out. Post your first few slips and then the final few slips. See if there is a difference.
Better still, do the test in a stock C5 Z06 or C6 Z06 on either stock tires or drag radials. Then you can compare your times to mine. If no skill is required to extract max acceleration from a car with a clutch, then your times should be reasonably close to mine.
Give it a go. The results should speak volumes as to the validity of your assertions.
Ranger
I propose a test of your espoused belief that little skill is required to get max acceleration from a manual-tranny Corvette.
It would be fitting, of course, for you to be the subject of the test.
I propose that you personally drive a stock 6-speed-manual C5 Corvette down the quarter-mile and post the ET/Trap and time-slip splits you attain.
Thousands of owners in the USA have done that and the bell-shaped curve of performance is pretty well established.
Needs to be a stock car for comparative purposes. We'll be sporting and give you say 20 passes to get the kinks out. Post your first few slips and then the final few slips. See if there is a difference.
Better still, do the test in a stock C5 Z06 or C6 Z06 on either stock tires or drag radials. Then you can compare your times to mine. If no skill is required to extract max acceleration from a car with a clutch, then your times should be reasonably close to mine.
Give it a go. The results should speak volumes as to the validity of your assertions.
Ranger
Last edited by Ranger; Jun 26, 2007 at 11:39 AM.
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From: Central Florida
Le Mans Master
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From: Winter Park FL
Needs to be a stock car for comparative purposes. We'll be sporting and give you say 20 passes to get the kinks out. Post your first few slips and then the final few slips. See if there is a difference.
Better still, do the test in a stock C5 Z06 or C6 Z06 on either stock tires or drag radials. Then you can compare your times to mine. If no skill is required to extract max acceleration from a car with a clutch, then your times should be reasonably close to mine.
Give it a go. The results should speak volumes as to the validity of your assertions.
Ranger
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From: Central Florida
But for the sake of discussion I'll be happy to compare my first day ever at the track in my 01 Z06, at zero passes in my drag log.
I've been through the learning process with three different Z06s. Any driver will improve with seat time and practice. What's at stake in shift speeds is about six tenths and about the same on shift points.
I've been coaching Corvette owners long enough to learn that.
But, I see that 97vetteman, has erased all his posts in this thread and gone away. So much for advancing civil discourse. Not often I'm told, like he did, that I don't know much about what happens at the drag strip.
Ranger
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From: Central Florida
and A4/6's have a lot of repeatability at the starting line. Cookie-cutter launches. I've beaten many a manual-shift solely because they blew the launch.
Even more reason for those with manual shift cars to learn to launch, first. Don't mod just to make up for bad technique...
There is more to decent golf than putting, to decent tennis than the serve. As a coach I try to help the driver work on the various elements of the run, using a fair number of garage and street drills to segment the learning burden. To run good times with the manual, once the launch is done, the driver still has nine more tasks to accomplish. They need work too.
Ranger
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Get a life Ranger!
I am just trying to help a fellow member who wants to know why he can't get low 13's from his stock M6 Vette.
It's because his 60ft time sucks.
Post up that a 2.38 60ft time doesn't matter in trying to get the best time from an M6 stock Vette or shut up!
Where would I find an M6 Vette in the UK! No one buys them because the gear change is crap!
I am just trying to help a fellow member who wants to know why he can't get low 13's from his stock M6 Vette.
It's because his 60ft time sucks.
Post up that a 2.38 60ft time doesn't matter in trying to get the best time from an M6 stock Vette or shut up!
Where would I find an M6 Vette in the UK! No one buys them because the gear change is crap!
Pro
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From: United Kingdom England
I deleted my post because there's a know all in this thread that thinks changing gear is some sort of black art that you Americans have just invented
So you have just discovered it's fun to change gear your self instead of letting the car do it for you we have been doing it for the last 40 yaers.
You still can't even make a decent manual gear change and it's no wonder you think it's so difficult to change gear when a standard transmission in the USA in an Auto. A standard transmission in the UK is a manual.
You learn to drive in an Auto in the USA then jump in a manual with no training and wonder why you can't change gear!
If you learn to drive in an auto in the UK that's all they will allow you to drive. We learn to drive in manual tarnsmission over here!
No matter how good your gear changes are and all the other bull you put about changing gear up the rest of the track blow the launch and you can kiss goodbye to a good time!
Come on post up that the 60ft time is not importnat or shut up!
Post it up run 2.38 60ft and you will still get low 13's from a stock M6 vette!
So you have just discovered it's fun to change gear your self instead of letting the car do it for you we have been doing it for the last 40 yaers.
You still can't even make a decent manual gear change and it's no wonder you think it's so difficult to change gear when a standard transmission in the USA in an Auto. A standard transmission in the UK is a manual.
You learn to drive in an Auto in the USA then jump in a manual with no training and wonder why you can't change gear!
If you learn to drive in an auto in the UK that's all they will allow you to drive. We learn to drive in manual tarnsmission over here!
No matter how good your gear changes are and all the other bull you put about changing gear up the rest of the track blow the launch and you can kiss goodbye to a good time!
Come on post up that the 60ft time is not importnat or shut up!
Post it up run 2.38 60ft and you will still get low 13's from a stock M6 vette!
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From: Central Florida
Get a life Ranger!
I am just trying to help a fellow member who wants to know why he can't get low 13's from his stock M6 Vette.
It's because his 60ft time sucks.
Post up that a 2.38 60ft time doesn't matter in trying to get the best time from an M6 stock Vette or shut up!
Where would I find an M6 Vette in the UK! No one buys them because the gear change is crap!
I am just trying to help a fellow member who wants to know why he can't get low 13's from his stock M6 Vette.
It's because his 60ft time sucks.
Post up that a 2.38 60ft time doesn't matter in trying to get the best time from an M6 stock Vette or shut up!
Where would I find an M6 Vette in the UK! No one buys them because the gear change is crap!
In civil discourse, it's customary to accurately quote the other party. And it would be helpful were you to do that and to refrain from hurling invectives at me.
Here is what I wrote:
Just a small point regarding the difference in expectations for an M6/M12 manual tranny and the A4/A6 automatic tranny....
JuicedVette036, the thread starter is driving a manual.
It is true that ET for an A4/A6 is governed heavily by the 60' time. That's because after the 60', the shift points and shift speeds are directed automatically by the car itself.
That's not the case for a manual tranny, where after the 60' the driver must make two or three shifts and shift speed and shift rpm both depend on driver skill and experience.
conceptually, I divide my M6/M12 passes into two increments.
(1) the 60'
(2) the 60'-1320'
There's a lot of individual tasks in the 60' to 1320' segments that can be practiced to reach optimization. In aggregate they have a huge effect on ET. Shift quality, accuracy and speed can become essentially automatic with practice, practice, practice. But shift points require constant attention. And for a new racer making initial passes in a platform or car, none of those elements are optimized. They all need work.
That's the allure of the manual tranny.
Ranger
JuicedVette036, the thread starter is driving a manual.
It is true that ET for an A4/A6 is governed heavily by the 60' time. That's because after the 60', the shift points and shift speeds are directed automatically by the car itself.
That's not the case for a manual tranny, where after the 60' the driver must make two or three shifts and shift speed and shift rpm both depend on driver skill and experience.
conceptually, I divide my M6/M12 passes into two increments.
(1) the 60'
(2) the 60'-1320'
There's a lot of individual tasks in the 60' to 1320' segments that can be practiced to reach optimization. In aggregate they have a huge effect on ET. Shift quality, accuracy and speed can become essentially automatic with practice, practice, practice. But shift points require constant attention. And for a new racer making initial passes in a platform or car, none of those elements are optimized. They all need work.
That's the allure of the manual tranny.
Ranger
Plenty of M6/M12 owners in the UK, including CF members.
As for the quality of the Corvette M6/M12 transmissions, I've made 578 passes in three cars with not a single tranny issue. I guess the difficulties you may have heard about involves people who shirk shifting practice; perhaps they labor under the same misimpression you've espoused in posts to this thread.
Ranger
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From: United Kingdom England
I see so you can be a decent golfer and you don't have to knon how to putt and you can be a good tennis player and you don't have to know how to serve. 
You are full of it man!
I stick by my statemnet you know jack about drag racing if you think the launch is not the most important part of the race!
You are full of it man!
I stick by my statemnet you know jack about drag racing if you think the launch is not the most important part of the race!