Need help - car still surging
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
From: Dubuque Iowa
Need help - car still surging
I installed a Donaldson Blackwing on a 2003 Z-O6 with a power duct several months ago and I noticed, at low RPM's, that the car had a surging feel. I disconnected the battery, as recommended by forum members, and also drove the car 50+ miles so the computer could recalibrate but the problem persisted.
I have gone back to the stock set up but now it still has a lesser but noticeable surging at low RPM's. Could it be the drive train play?
Shouldn't you be able to put on an after-market intake without any further steps and have it work correctly?
I have gone back to the stock set up but now it still has a lesser but noticeable surging at low RPM's. Could it be the drive train play?
Shouldn't you be able to put on an after-market intake without any further steps and have it work correctly?
Advanced
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
From: Virginia Beach Virginia
Sigs,
I have the same issue at very low RPM's (1000-1600). I've got a pretty big cam installed and have had it professionally dyno tuned. It's still there and I'm thinking it's the Throttle Position Sensor. It happens regardless of gear, and just off idle with the pedal.
Sound anything like what you have going on? Your blackwing install should not have done anything to the TPS. But it is a sensor, and they do fail. Maybe it was just timing...
I have the same issue at very low RPM's (1000-1600). I've got a pretty big cam installed and have had it professionally dyno tuned. It's still there and I'm thinking it's the Throttle Position Sensor. It happens regardless of gear, and just off idle with the pedal.
Sound anything like what you have going on? Your blackwing install should not have done anything to the TPS. But it is a sensor, and they do fail. Maybe it was just timing...
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,356
Likes: 1
From: Chesapeake Va
Sigs,
I have the same issue at very low RPM's (1000-1600). I've got a pretty big cam installed and have had it professionally dyno tuned. It's still there and I'm thinking it's the Throttle Position Sensor. It happens regardless of gear, and just off idle with the pedal.
Sound anything like what you have going on? Your blackwing install should not have done anything to the TPS. But it is a sensor, and they do fail. Maybe it was just timing...
I have the same issue at very low RPM's (1000-1600). I've got a pretty big cam installed and have had it professionally dyno tuned. It's still there and I'm thinking it's the Throttle Position Sensor. It happens regardless of gear, and just off idle with the pedal.
Sound anything like what you have going on? Your blackwing install should not have done anything to the TPS. But it is a sensor, and they do fail. Maybe it was just timing...
I dont know what to tell Sigs, sorry. Except that it shouldnt surge.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,554
Likes: 33
From: Not on either liberal coast.
Surging in a carburetor car is usually an indication of a lean condition. I would think at your IA altitude that a BLACKWING would be fine and the computer would adjust within its parameters. Many members install them and never have any issues.
I had a complete BLACKWING system on my Z16 with the "ice box" cover and over sized air bridge and cut shroud. I never got any surging, but I got intermittent codes. I think it was related to my 5,200 ft altitude and the improved breathing. I ended up removing the system and returned to a modified oem intake.
Before giving up on your BLACKWING, thoroughly re-check every intake connection where there are clamps. Make sure that everything is air tight to eliminate any possible air leaks. When I first installed mine w/o the cover and cut shroud, I found that the after market smooth silicone bellows had a pucker under the throttle body. I missed it until I used a small mirror. The clamp was tight, but the smooth bellows had a 1/4" opening sucking air.
You didn't mention anything about codes...
I had a complete BLACKWING system on my Z16 with the "ice box" cover and over sized air bridge and cut shroud. I never got any surging, but I got intermittent codes. I think it was related to my 5,200 ft altitude and the improved breathing. I ended up removing the system and returned to a modified oem intake.
Before giving up on your BLACKWING, thoroughly re-check every intake connection where there are clamps. Make sure that everything is air tight to eliminate any possible air leaks. When I first installed mine w/o the cover and cut shroud, I found that the after market smooth silicone bellows had a pucker under the throttle body. I missed it until I used a small mirror. The clamp was tight, but the smooth bellows had a 1/4" opening sucking air.
You didn't mention anything about codes...
Last edited by hotwheels57; Jul 29, 2007 at 03:12 PM.
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
From: Dubuque Iowa
The car is Stock! No Codes! The Blackwing is all I have done to the car. Is there a way to tell if TPS is not working right? The car runs fine when the RPMs are from about 2500 on up to red line.
Advanced
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
From: Virginia Beach Virginia
You can check it with a volt meter, but the absolute best way is with a Scope type meter. I don't have one or access to one so I haven't done that. It is such a small area on my pedal I doubt a volt meter would pick it up. But a scope is so fast, it displays a graph sort of like on a dyno, it would see it.
I'll do some searching on the web and see if I can find anything for you. But do check the piping like mentioned earlier.
I'll do some searching on the web and see if I can find anything for you. But do check the piping like mentioned earlier.
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Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,962
Likes: 29
From: Van Buren Arkansas
Wounded Warrior Escort '11
Not sure if I'm understanding the symptom but something that happened to my '99 might in your department. On mine, I was getting a surging and hesitation on take-offs. I discovered on the bottom of the PCV valve connection tube to the intake, there were two holes in it. One was huge, so the car was running way lean. Fixed it then had to run the idle relearn procedure and its been fine ever since.
Racer
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 446
Likes: 0
From: Orlando Fl
I also am having a surging problem with my '04 Z06 with a Blackwing. My tuner believes it may be the result of turbulence created by the filter as the air goes into the MAF such that the MAF is having a hard time monitoring the flow. The '04 Z06 and I believe yours have no screen in the MAF he has suggested that maybe a screened MAF would help. I really do not want to put a screened MAF in when everything I have done is to get more air in and more air out. I have even thought of going with another intake...Honker etc. Please let me know what you find out. thanks
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
You problem could be that you getting "UN-METERED" air into the the engine. I use carb cleaner and spray all the slip joints. If you spray a joint and it effects the idle, its leaking.
On way to tell if the TPS or accelerator pedal position switch is working correctly is with Scanning/Tuning software like EFI Live or HP Tuners. You can select the PID and see the actual voltage increase and decrease as you move the throttle. If you can find someone with the software, it doesn't cost anything to scan your PCM and look at the functions.
Have you ever cleaned your MAF? When mine gets dirty, it is noticeable as a slight hesitation. Its easy to do and only requires a quick spray with MAF cleaner. I just use break parts cleaner on mine. While I have everything apart, I also clean the TB and blade.
BC
On way to tell if the TPS or accelerator pedal position switch is working correctly is with Scanning/Tuning software like EFI Live or HP Tuners. You can select the PID and see the actual voltage increase and decrease as you move the throttle. If you can find someone with the software, it doesn't cost anything to scan your PCM and look at the functions.
Have you ever cleaned your MAF? When mine gets dirty, it is noticeable as a slight hesitation. Its easy to do and only requires a quick spray with MAF cleaner. I just use break parts cleaner on mine. While I have everything apart, I also clean the TB and blade.
BC
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,720
Likes: 3
From: East Hampton CT
You problem could be that you getting "UN-METERED" air into the the engine. I use carb cleaner and spray all the slip joints. If you spray a joint and it effects the idle, its leaking.
On way to tell if the TPS or accelerator pedal position switch is working correctly is with Scanning/Tuning software like EFI Live or HP Tuners. You can select the PID and see the actual voltage increase and decrease as you move the throttle. If you can find someone with the software, it doesn't cost anything to scan your PCM and look at the functions.
Have you ever cleaned your MAF? When mine gets dirty, it is noticeable as a slight hesitation. Its easy to do and only requires a quick spray with MAF cleaner. I just use break parts cleaner on mine. While I have everything apart, I also clean the TB and blade.
BC
On way to tell if the TPS or accelerator pedal position switch is working correctly is with Scanning/Tuning software like EFI Live or HP Tuners. You can select the PID and see the actual voltage increase and decrease as you move the throttle. If you can find someone with the software, it doesn't cost anything to scan your PCM and look at the functions.
Have you ever cleaned your MAF? When mine gets dirty, it is noticeable as a slight hesitation. Its easy to do and only requires a quick spray with MAF cleaner. I just use break parts cleaner on mine. While I have everything apart, I also clean the TB and blade.
BC
Listen to Bill, he knows his stuff. Its likely NOT your TP sensor. Dirty/descreend MAF or air leak are my votes. I went from a descreened to screened maf and my car likes the screened one more, esp with my vararam.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,178
Likes: 13
From: N. County/San Diego
You problem could be that you getting "UN-METERED" air into the the engine. I use carb cleaner and spray all the slip joints. If you spray a joint and it effects the idle, its leaking.
On way to tell if the TPS or accelerator pedal position switch is working correctly is with Scanning/Tuning software like EFI Live or HP Tuners. You can select the PID and see the actual voltage increase and decrease as you move the throttle. If you can find someone with the software, it doesn't cost anything to scan your PCM and look at the functions.
Have you ever cleaned your MAF? When mine gets dirty, it is noticeable as a slight hesitation. Its easy to do and only requires a quick spray with MAF cleaner. I just use break parts cleaner on mine. While I have everything apart, I also clean the TB and blade.
BC
On way to tell if the TPS or accelerator pedal position switch is working correctly is with Scanning/Tuning software like EFI Live or HP Tuners. You can select the PID and see the actual voltage increase and decrease as you move the throttle. If you can find someone with the software, it doesn't cost anything to scan your PCM and look at the functions.
Have you ever cleaned your MAF? When mine gets dirty, it is noticeable as a slight hesitation. Its easy to do and only requires a quick spray with MAF cleaner. I just use break parts cleaner on mine. While I have everything apart, I also clean the TB and blade.
BC
My guess is that the MAF got coated by oil from the new Black Wing OR..... there is an air leak at one of the couplers!
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,720
Likes: 3
From: East Hampton CT
Just buy some MAF cleaner at the auto parts store and hose the heck out of the little elements in your MAF. Make sure NOT to touch them with anything since they're very frail and a little nudge with a screwdriver or finger can break them.
