Lifters...Ticking Away
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 688
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From: Rye Brook, NY
Lifters...Ticking Away
I have ticking / noisey lifters. I can live with the noise, part of the trade off for a cam, but am concerned. What is the cause and the fix? How do you know it is a lifter in the first place? What can happen negatively due to a bad lifter? Thanks, any information is appreciated.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,962
Likes: 29
From: Van Buren Arkansas
Wounded Warrior Escort '11
I have some experience with my '99's lifters. First off, how many miles on them? You have some mods, so there is always a possibility is that something is up with that. Lifters can and will wear out eventually. I'll describe my own and you can take it from there. Almost 3 years ago now, I was getting tapping sounds on cold startup. It started out by only lasting a few seconds then would get quiet as the oil pressure came up. Then it slowly took longer and longer to go away. Eventually, it kept tapping till there was a rise on the analog water temp indicator and then a few weeks later, it suddenly got real bad and loud. Between all that, I took it to the dealer and paid them to diagnose what I was pretty sure of already. The result was "Lifters bleeding down when cold". I took the top down on the engine, replaced them all along with new rockers, pushrods and had the heads processed at an engine shop with new brass racing valve guides, normal springs and seals. Put it all back together, problem solved.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,037
Likes: 0
From: Independence Missouri
St. Jude Donor '06
IMHO, you should not have lifter noise if the geometry is set up correctly. I run an extremely large cam in mine and have almost no lifter or rocker noise. You will get so many opposing opinions (and they are just that) on this topic however, having worked on several of the LS1's with different cam profiles and applications from FI to NA, in every case where they had noise before, soon went away after the correct push rods were used and the swipe patterns were perfect. Its all in the detail. Good luck!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,847
Likes: 1,144
From: Sleepy Hollow- NJ
IMHO, you should not have lifter noise if the geometry is set up correctly. I run an extremely large cam in mine and have almost no lifter or rocker noise. You will get so many opposing opinions (and they are just that) on this topic however, having worked on several of the LS1's with different cam profiles and applications from FI to NA, in every case where they had noise before, soon went away after the correct push rods were used and the swipe patterns were perfect. Its all in the detail. Good luck!
If "correct" means smaller, yeah...the noise will soften.
I am yet to hear a C5 with with extensive mods done, not make that distinct sound. I guess the 200 to 300 cars (including 4 different builds on my car, by 3 different highly respected LS engine builders) I have heard run....were all done with incorrect push rods?
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
I think you need to differentiate between sounds. A distinctive "tick tick" due to improper pushrod preload is correctable and geometry plays a role as does pushrod length on these motors. Aluminum loves to transmit sound waves though, and an aggressive grind will have what I call a "well oiled valve train noise". Hard to describe the difference with a keyboard. I do agree with 6 Kids on one thing, most people do not take the time to verify the wipe pattern and lifter preload. They buy the recommended parts and bolt the motor back together again. Sometimes things work well, sometimes they don't. Not saying this is the situation here, but all too often when I ask what the wipe pattern looked like you get the internet equivalent of the deer in the headlights back as a response.
Former Vendor
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 395
From: Tampa FL
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12'-'13-'14-'15
I think you need to differentiate between sounds. A distinctive "tick tick" due to improper pushrod preload is correctable and geometry plays a role as does pushrod length on these motors. Aluminum loves to transmit sound waves though, and an aggressive grind will have what I call a "well oiled valve train noise". Hard to describe the difference with a keyboard. I do agree with 6 Kids on one thing, most people do not take the time to verify the wipe pattern and lifter preload. They buy the recommended parts and bolt the motor back together again. Sometimes things work well, sometimes they don't. Not saying this is the situation here, but all too often when I ask what the wipe pattern looked like you get the internet equivalent of the deer in the headlights back as a response.
Cajun
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,723
Likes: 1,089
From: NE OH
St. Jude Donor '09-'10
I think you need to differentiate between sounds. A distinctive "tick tick" due to improper pushrod preload is correctable and geometry plays a role as does pushrod length on these motors. Aluminum loves to transmit sound waves though, and an aggressive grind will have what I call a "well oiled valve train noise". Hard to describe the difference with a keyboard. I do agree with 6 Kids on one thing, most people do not take the time to verify the wipe pattern and lifter preload. They buy the recommended parts and bolt the motor back together again. Sometimes things work well, sometimes they don't. Not saying this is the situation here, but all too often when I ask what the wipe pattern looked like you get the internet equivalent of the deer in the headlights back as a response.
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Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 25,889
Likes: 7
From: Virginia Beach
CI 3-5-6-7-8 Veteran
A lifter can eventually fail... and then you have to pull the motor and re-build it because metal goes everywhere. However failure is rare.
These motors sound like sewing machines... even bone stock my LS6 did it, my dad's LS6 does it, and my mother's '99 does it... as does every other LSX I've heard.
Yes, if your pre-load is incorrect then you can/will have excessive rattling, however it never goes away... a large cam is opening and closing the valves faster and moving them longer. It's just noisier.
These motors sound like sewing machines... even bone stock my LS6 did it, my dad's LS6 does it, and my mother's '99 does it... as does every other LSX I've heard.
Yes, if your pre-load is incorrect then you can/will have excessive rattling, however it never goes away... a large cam is opening and closing the valves faster and moving them longer. It's just noisier.
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
From: Apple Valley MN
I don't know if I am hearing the same sounds - I recently bought a 2001 with only 4451 miles on it. the first morning after I brought it home and started it in the garage - I heard lifter noise - something I never heard from my 81 C3. I went to a trusted Mechainc who is member of our club - he listened - smiled and had me follow him into the garage where he stated another 2001. Same sounds - slightly differant in tone but the same sounds. I was told if it gets louder or changes - then worry.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 25,889
Likes: 7
From: Virginia Beach
CI 3-5-6-7-8 Veteran
^ You also have piston slap on a cold motor.... aluminum expands/contracts. So when the motor is cold the pistons are smaller so they can slap in the bore a bit until the motor is warm. This is normal and won't hurt anything.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
In this case (2001) I would tend to agree, my Pontiac Grand Am 3.1 has had piston slap since new, sounds like a diesel when I start it. Getting ready to turn over 190K miles and it still runs like a raped ape and gets 30+ MPG.The valve train noise will be an issue if you are actually getting open lash, i.e., the pushrod is physically separating from the lifter/rocker. You need to have a proper preload, especially with stock lifters, as the clip that holds the plunger in place won't take much abuse so you need to ensure the plunger stays depressed within the lifter (keeps preload). The injectors can also contribute to this noise as well, but they have a more "clicky" sound.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 881
Likes: 2
From: hill billy hell
In this case (2001) I would tend to agree, my Pontiac Grand Am 3.1 has had piston slap since new, sounds like a diesel when I start it. Getting ready to turn over 190K miles and it still runs like a raped ape and gets 30+ MPG.The valve train noise will be an issue if you are actually getting open lash, i.e., the pushrod is physically separating from the lifter/rocker. You need to have a proper preload, especially with stock lifters, as the clip that holds the plunger in place won't take much abuse so you need to ensure the plunger stays depressed within the lifter (keeps preload). The injectors can also contribute to this noise as well, but they have a more "clicky" sound" .
IMO when a valve train noise becomes a problem it should make a distinct TAP TAP noise.
The purpose of the hydraulic lifter with proper preload is to ensure 0 lash on the valve train.
Like stated aluminum transits more sounds.
Last edited by jirasvet; Oct 4, 2007 at 01:07 PM.
