Catch can not catchin so much...
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,298
Likes: 12
From: Salt Lake City UT
oil in intake
If you run the car hard i.e. track days or races and still have the oil in the manifold problem after catch can installation you may want to think about restricting oil flow to upper end. This is a problem in most wet sump LS engines.
A lot of racers are using Smith Bros. .040 restriction pushrods (part # 581R) in either stock length (7.400) or if you have milled heads and .040 head gasket a 7.350 length pushrod. These are chrome moly 5/16" x .083 wall.
A lot of racers are using Smith Bros. .040 restriction pushrods (part # 581R) in either stock length (7.400) or if you have milled heads and .040 head gasket a 7.350 length pushrod. These are chrome moly 5/16" x .083 wall.
I'm "Apache" a psycho dog
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 3,085
Likes: 31
From: N.J.
I just emptied mine today almost full (actually 3/4) had to be careful not to spill it, also will you guys check out my thread about this subject
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1876080
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1876080
Last edited by Rob 99; Nov 29, 2007 at 08:08 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 19,304
Likes: 85
From: San Diego CA
The degradation (and resulting loss of power) is gradual, so they may seem to be running fine, but....
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,955
Likes: 161
From: PNW
I just emptied mine today almost full (actually 3/4) had to be careful not to spill it, also will you guys check out my thread about this subject
http://http://forums.corvetteforum.c....php?t=1876080
http://http://forums.corvetteforum.c....php?t=1876080
This is the link you wanted .... http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1876080
I'm "Apache" a psycho dog
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 3,085
Likes: 31
From: N.J.
Dead link ...
This is the link you wanted .... http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1876080
This is the link you wanted .... http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1876080
Thanks i fixed it
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,458
Likes: 105
From: Northville Michigan
It has been posted elsewhere, but to solve the LS engine problem of oil being sucked into the intake manifold you need TWO catch cans and oil flow restricting pushrods.
I started with one AMW catch can and after every HPDE track day I would have 1.5 inch to 2.0 inches of oil in the bottom of it. I also continued to have oil in my intake manifold.
Because a supporting vendor plumbed my valve cover to throttle body PCV line to the front of the air bridge, I found oil coming out of that line. It ended up fouling my MAF and throttle body. That showed me the need for the second catch can in that line. In regards of the oil flow restricting pushrods, you need them because GM's design of the LS family of engines allows too much oil to flow to the cylinder heads and it floods the PCV system. Wheel to Wheel, Katech, and DJ Racing recommend and use these pushrods.
Using all of that information, I purchased and installed the Smith Brothers 5/16 inch x 0.083 inch wall, 0.040 inch restrictor chrome-moly pushrods. I also purchased and installed a second AMW catch can and plumbed it in the line from the valve cover to the throttle body. While doing this, it is important to keep the inlet to the second catch can higher than the hose outlet on the valve cover to prevent syphoning of the oil out of the valve cover at high RPMs.
Here are some pictures:
For those of you who are wondering, the #12 line with the blue tie wraps is the inlet line from the engine to my Ron Davis Racing radiator's oil cooler.
The last picture shows the two catch cans after a full HPDE day at Grattan Raceway. Notice that the catch can in the line with the PCV valve has a small amount of oil, while the catch can in the line from the valve cover to the throttle body has ZERO oil in it.
It is important to note that without the Smith Brothers oil flow restricting pushrods, BOTH catch cans would have significant oil in them.
I am surprised that Dirty Howie did not mention this solution.
I started with one AMW catch can and after every HPDE track day I would have 1.5 inch to 2.0 inches of oil in the bottom of it. I also continued to have oil in my intake manifold.
Because a supporting vendor plumbed my valve cover to throttle body PCV line to the front of the air bridge, I found oil coming out of that line. It ended up fouling my MAF and throttle body. That showed me the need for the second catch can in that line. In regards of the oil flow restricting pushrods, you need them because GM's design of the LS family of engines allows too much oil to flow to the cylinder heads and it floods the PCV system. Wheel to Wheel, Katech, and DJ Racing recommend and use these pushrods.
Using all of that information, I purchased and installed the Smith Brothers 5/16 inch x 0.083 inch wall, 0.040 inch restrictor chrome-moly pushrods. I also purchased and installed a second AMW catch can and plumbed it in the line from the valve cover to the throttle body. While doing this, it is important to keep the inlet to the second catch can higher than the hose outlet on the valve cover to prevent syphoning of the oil out of the valve cover at high RPMs.
Here are some pictures:
For those of you who are wondering, the #12 line with the blue tie wraps is the inlet line from the engine to my Ron Davis Racing radiator's oil cooler.
The last picture shows the two catch cans after a full HPDE day at Grattan Raceway. Notice that the catch can in the line with the PCV valve has a small amount of oil, while the catch can in the line from the valve cover to the throttle body has ZERO oil in it.
It is important to note that without the Smith Brothers oil flow restricting pushrods, BOTH catch cans would have significant oil in them.
I am surprised that Dirty Howie did not mention this solution.
Last edited by Pumba; Dec 2, 2007 at 10:03 AM.
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
From: Noblesville Indiana
I was thinking more along the lines of plugging the factory PCV system and just having the breather alone to handle crankcase pressure.
100% guaranteed to never get oil in the intake... the only downside I would see is that you would probably have smoke out of the breather, which could cost you coolness points if you popped your hood at the cruise-in with the engine running.
100% guaranteed to never get oil in the intake... the only downside I would see is that you would probably have smoke out of the breather, which could cost you coolness points if you popped your hood at the cruise-in with the engine running.
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Supporting Vendor
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,641
Likes: 7
From: Beautiful CO
St. jude Donor '14
Team Owner
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 26,345
Likes: 232
From: SoCal
Actually I did respond up top to cans needed in both lines. I actually have TWO in each.
AND....I now have the Smith Bros. push rods but have not been to the track yet (12/12/07)....so hopefully I will be able to confirm their sucess at that time
DH
AND....I now have the Smith Bros. push rods but have not been to the track yet (12/12/07)....so hopefully I will be able to confirm their sucess at that time
DH
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
From: Noblesville Indiana
If you're going to drop that kind of coin on your PCV system why not just spend a little more and do a vacuum pump?
Team Owner
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 26,345
Likes: 232
From: SoCal
I never intended to have 4 cans. It was a learning process.....I started off with paper fuel filters. I have several of those as well as the Home Depot glass jar setups and PepBoy breathers!!!!!!! (anyone want to buy this stuff??)
I don't know that a vacuum pump would solve all the oil issues in the manifold problems. I thought it was to help seal rings and increase HP. Plus I don't want additional moving parts on my engine.
DH
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,458
Likes: 105
From: Northville Michigan
A vacuum pump would not be beneficial to a LS series engine. The most significant problem we have to overcome is the excessive amount of oil that gets pumped up into the overhead, and then drains back.
The solution to that problem is the Smith Brothers oil flow restricting pushrods.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 26,345
Likes: 232
From: SoCal
A vacuum pump would not be beneficial to a LS series engine. The most significant problem we have to overcome is the excessive amount of oil that gets pumped up into the overhead, and then drains back.
The solution to that problem is the Smith Brothers oil flow restricting pushrods.
The solution to that problem is the Smith Brothers oil flow restricting pushrods.
The last time at the track I had to drain my EE can in the valve cover to airbridge line after every session and it was 3/4 FULL
DH
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 5
From: Chicago IL
I was thinking more along the lines of plugging the factory PCV system and just having the breather alone to handle crankcase pressure.
100% guaranteed to never get oil in the intake... the only downside I would see is that you would probably have smoke out of the breather, which could cost you coolness points if you popped your hood at the cruise-in with the engine running.
100% guaranteed to never get oil in the intake... the only downside I would see is that you would probably have smoke out of the breather, which could cost you coolness points if you popped your hood at the cruise-in with the engine running.
Platinum Supporting Vendor
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 5,730
Likes: 270
From: VENTURA Ca
If you vent like this, you'll get a lot less oil.
A lot less liquid oil gets dragged with the vapor if the oulet is up high.
A lot less liquid oil gets dragged with the vapor if the oulet is up high.
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Team Owner
Joined: May 2004
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From: SoCal
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,683
Likes: 144
From: Memphis Tennessee
...with flame-suit on...
I am using a CH catch can complete with the coalescing stone in place. It is installed in "reverse flow" configuration and immediately following it I have a plastic fuel filter inline. All of this is AFTER the OEM PCV system.
I get enough oil in the bowl to be concerned, about the same as mentioned in this thread. I find it amazing that there is this much oil getting by and GM is not more concerned. All my reading suggests that the oil is drawn up during deceleration. My car is not driven very hard and I have the MN6. One suggestion was that it was the derivitive of high rpm and light throttle opening. I don't think I fit that scenario much in my normal driving.
All in all, we all need a system to stop the oil from making the inside of the intake. I intended to move UP to the EE type cans, but mine appears to work well.
...flame suit on......FIRE AWAY.
I am using a CH catch can complete with the coalescing stone in place. It is installed in "reverse flow" configuration and immediately following it I have a plastic fuel filter inline. All of this is AFTER the OEM PCV system.
I get enough oil in the bowl to be concerned, about the same as mentioned in this thread. I find it amazing that there is this much oil getting by and GM is not more concerned. All my reading suggests that the oil is drawn up during deceleration. My car is not driven very hard and I have the MN6. One suggestion was that it was the derivitive of high rpm and light throttle opening. I don't think I fit that scenario much in my normal driving.
All in all, we all need a system to stop the oil from making the inside of the intake. I intended to move UP to the EE type cans, but mine appears to work well.
...flame suit on......FIRE AWAY.