Head gasket thickness
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 933
Likes: 0
From: St. Paul MN
I'm going to be starting my project probably sometime after Christmas. Because I live in Minnesota 
that will give me plenty of time so I can take my time.
What procedure do you recommend for preparing the surface for the new heads/gaskets? I'd especially like to hear how you plan to prevent any particals from falling into the cylinders or lifter bores. Back in the day when I had the luxury of removing the motor from the vehicle I would prepare the surface of my block by spinning the motor upside down on the stand, thus gravity would help me keep the critical areas clean.
I'm going to test PVC, but do you think with my Combo (Dart Pro1 205 62cc / 228/230 .571/.573 112) I run the risk of interference issues? The reason why I ask is because I don't really want to buy an expensive set of gaskets only to find out that my only option is to fly cut the pistons or replace with a thicker gasket. What do you advise?
Also, you sound like you have your installation procedure pretty well planned out and I think all of us would benefit from your carefull think-through of the procedure. If you have time it would be awesome if you could post a DIY thread of your head install procedure!
that will give me plenty of time so I can take my time.What procedure do you recommend for preparing the surface for the new heads/gaskets? I'd especially like to hear how you plan to prevent any particals from falling into the cylinders or lifter bores. Back in the day when I had the luxury of removing the motor from the vehicle I would prepare the surface of my block by spinning the motor upside down on the stand, thus gravity would help me keep the critical areas clean.
I'm going to test PVC, but do you think with my Combo (Dart Pro1 205 62cc / 228/230 .571/.573 112) I run the risk of interference issues? The reason why I ask is because I don't really want to buy an expensive set of gaskets only to find out that my only option is to fly cut the pistons or replace with a thicker gasket. What do you advise?
Also, you sound like you have your installation procedure pretty well planned out and I think all of us would benefit from your carefull think-through of the procedure. If you have time it would be awesome if you could post a DIY thread of your head install procedure!
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 16,477
Likes: 26
From: Gone
CI 6-7-8-9-10 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '03
If you're not milling the heads, you should have no p/v clearance issues with that cam and .040" gaskets.
You can bolt the head on with some .040" shimstock in between the block and head for checking purposes, before investing in the gaskets.
I did just that when checking clearance, as I didn't want to use the gaskets until the final installation. I know they can be re-used, but still, I only wanted to compress them once.
You can bolt the head on with some .040" shimstock in between the block and head for checking purposes, before investing in the gaskets.
I did just that when checking clearance, as I didn't want to use the gaskets until the final installation. I know they can be re-used, but still, I only wanted to compress them once.
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 158
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From: DFW Big State Of Texas
I have been thinking of going with 225cc darts for my stroker engine build. Im going to reuse my cam 228/232 591/608 @114
Anyone have any issue with the 225 darts I wil have them ported and polished any other sugestions.
Anyone have any issue with the 225 darts I wil have them ported and polished any other sugestions.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,134
Likes: 1
From: Arlington Texas
Sorry about not posting the specs:
Dart pro 1 205cc with 62 cc chambers
Comp Cams 228/230 .571/573 112
planned head gasket thinkness: .040
Stock rocker arms
I can't imagine that I'll have any PTV clearance issue with that setup. I'd like to run the thinner gasket but I was worried about the intake manifold fitting correctly or other similar issues.
Dart pro 1 205cc with 62 cc chambers
Comp Cams 228/230 .571/573 112
planned head gasket thinkness: .040
Stock rocker arms
I can't imagine that I'll have any PTV clearance issue with that setup. I'd like to run the thinner gasket but I was worried about the intake manifold fitting correctly or other similar issues.
Assumptions:
.040 thick head gasket
Piston is .004 ABOVE the deck
Unmilled Dart heads
112 +0 (Cam straight up, no advance)
112 +2 (Cam advanced 2 degrees)
112 +4 (Cam advanced 4 degrees)
Last edited by thetorch; Dec 18, 2007 at 11:20 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,134
Likes: 1
From: Arlington Texas
No issues, just ensure your combination is put together correctly. A mismatched combination is a painful experience.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 933
Likes: 0
From: St. Paul MN
I did some quick calculations on PTV clearance for your combo and it appears that you will have issues. I didn't know the advance on the cam so I did the same calculation at 0, +2, and +4. Here are the results, look at the 'Min piston to valve' reading on the charts:
112 +0 (Cam straight up, no advance)
112 +2 (Cam advanced 2 degrees)
112 +4 (Cam advanced 4 degrees)
112 +0 (Cam straight up, no advance)
112 +2 (Cam advanced 2 degrees)
112 +4 (Cam advanced 4 degrees)
Crap according to your findings even if I run stock thickness gaskets I'm still not going to be OK. How is it that the other gentleman running the same heads and a similar cam (more lift..especially on the exhaust side 228/232 591/608 @114) is going to be fine...do the two degrees of Cam timing make that big of a difference?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,134
Likes: 1
From: Arlington Texas
Thanks for looking into that!!
Crap according to your findings even if I run stock thickness gaskets I'm still not going to be OK. How is it that the other gentleman running the same heads and a similar cam (more lift..especially on the exhaust side 228/232 591/608 @114) is going to be fine...do the two degrees of Cam timing make that big of a difference?
Crap according to your findings even if I run stock thickness gaskets I'm still not going to be OK. How is it that the other gentleman running the same heads and a similar cam (more lift..especially on the exhaust side 228/232 591/608 @114) is going to be fine...do the two degrees of Cam timing make that big of a difference?
A wider Lobe Separation Angle (LSA) gives you better piston to valve clearance, which is why the 114 cleared. I'll run the same simulation with a 114 and post for visual clarity.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,134
Likes: 1
From: Arlington Texas
Thanks for looking into that!!
Crap according to your findings even if I run stock thickness gaskets I'm still not going to be OK. How is it that the other gentleman running the same heads and a similar cam (more lift..especially on the exhaust side 228/232 591/608 @114) is going to be fine...do the two degrees of Cam timing make that big of a difference?
Crap according to your findings even if I run stock thickness gaskets I'm still not going to be OK. How is it that the other gentleman running the same heads and a similar cam (more lift..especially on the exhaust side 228/232 591/608 @114) is going to be fine...do the two degrees of Cam timing make that big of a difference?
Assumptions:
.040 head gasket
Piston .004 ABOVE the deck
unmilled 205cc Dart head
114 +0
114 +2
114 +4
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Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
As for keeping particles out. Right now I am going to set all pistons so they are down from the block surface. I am thinking about cutting cardboard circles and setting them on the piston then packing grease around the periphery. On the lifter area, stuff with clean rags then same type of thing, press cardboard against the block and then cut to shape and pack edges with grease. That's the plan for now, might change once I get in there and find out it doesn't work
My dad was an aircraft mechanic in WWII and he drilled me on keeping things clean so I won't start any work on the block surface until I am positive I won't contaminate the cylinders and lifter bores. I also have a boroscope my wife bought me as a gift that I use to verify the cleanliness of oil galleries, etc. prior to re-assembly. One of the best tools I own.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
I did some quick calculations on PTV clearance for your combo and it appears that you will have issues. I didn't know the advance on the cam so I did the same calculation at 0, +2, and +4. Here are the results, look at the 'Min piston to valve' reading on the charts:
Assumptions:
.040 thick head gasket
Piston is .004 ABOVE the deck
Unmilled Dart heads
112 +0 (Cam straight up, no advance)
Assumptions:
.040 thick head gasket
Piston is .004 ABOVE the deck
Unmilled Dart heads
112 +0 (Cam straight up, no advance)
Team Owner
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 21,473
Likes: 356
From: Palmdale, Ca----- 2009 Cyber Gray 4LT A6 F55 452 RWHP 422 RWTQ- RIP 1998 C5 734 RWHP & 585 RWTQ-----
I'm doing a head/cam install this winter (dart pro 1 205cc) and I was wondering what people are running for head gaskets (type and thinkness). Is there any issues with running a thinner head gasket (.041") over the stock piece (i.e. tendency to blow a gasket, fitment issues, etc.)? Anything you would recommend?
Cam has a lot to do with it too as well a the overlap!
Thanks,Matt
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,134
Likes: 1
From: Arlington Texas
Your correct, great feedback. In the case of the TFS heads, the twisted wedge design increases PTV clearance. What cam are you running?
Team Owner
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 21,473
Likes: 356
From: Palmdale, Ca----- 2009 Cyber Gray 4LT A6 F55 452 RWHP 422 RWTQ- RIP 1998 C5 734 RWHP & 585 RWTQ-----
IMHO
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,134
Likes: 1
From: Arlington Texas
I am still working on it. Basically, I started with the LS1howto procedure and re-wrote most of it I don't agree with several things that are done in that procedure plus PTV and cam degree aren't checked either. I would also need to make it a pdf file as it is 45 mbytes
What don't you agree with? I'm curios because I'll be starting my install this weekend. Any tips you can share?
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,472
Likes: 1
From: Reynoldsburg oh
I have tried just about every head gasket out there. Felpro lasted 3 days, the copper ones lasted 2 weeks. Stockers lasted alittle longer, I have never had any issues with cometic 3 piece steel gaskets. I will never use any other then that one. Now I am not stating that the rest of them are no good, just stating what I have had good luck with. Mine are .040 as well. Also I would recomend spraying the gasket down with hallamar as well before installing them.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,134
Likes: 1
From: Arlington Texas
I have tried just about every head gasket out there. Felpro lasted 3 days, the copper ones lasted 2 weeks. Stockers lasted alittle longer, I have never had any issues with cometic 3 piece steel gaskets. I will never use any other then that one. Now I am not stating that the rest of them are no good, just stating what I have had good luck with. Mine are .040 as well. Also I would recomend spraying the gasket down with hallamar as well before installing them.
MLS gaskets are very sensitive to surface preparation and finish. When these gaskets fail on a repeated basis it's usually contributed to one of these reasons.
Did you figure out why you had some many head gaskets fail in such a short period?
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,134
Likes: 1
From: Arlington Texas
For starters, I don't think you should use the old bolt for holding the center pressure during removal of the pulley. Re-installation, bigger problems. Make a tool. Installation of rockers requires a specific tightening sequence, its not included in LS1howto. If you are installing Yella Terra's, their instructions leave a lot to be desired as well. .......
I'm probably doing the same as you procedure wise. I'm writing the procedure tailored to the parts I am installing, using the correct tools. The LS1 How-to is more of a general guideline of the steps required to perform the operation.
