First start, no oil pressure - Video
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 362
Likes: 60
From: North NJ
First start, no oil pressure - Video
Yeah, it's not a Corvette, but figure you guys had alot more experience than those CTS-V guys on this matter -
My friend puts a new 408" LQ9 motor in his CTSV, starts it up, and after about 45 seconds of idle time, the oil pressure is still low (6psi).
We are crossover guy from Ford, and mostly when we'd start a new Ford motor up, oil pressure came up quickly but the sensor on the Ford is right at the pump, the sensor on the GM is up near the firewall quite a distance from the pump.
Just wondering how long it normally takes to get decent oil pressure on a fresh motor startup.
Check the video, and let me know what you think -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHPULUirnYE
(FYI - He has the blue O-ring on the oil pump, and says he was VERY careful with installing it, and assures me it is in there properly)
Thanks in advance...
MJB
My friend puts a new 408" LQ9 motor in his CTSV, starts it up, and after about 45 seconds of idle time, the oil pressure is still low (6psi).
We are crossover guy from Ford, and mostly when we'd start a new Ford motor up, oil pressure came up quickly but the sensor on the Ford is right at the pump, the sensor on the GM is up near the firewall quite a distance from the pump.
Just wondering how long it normally takes to get decent oil pressure on a fresh motor startup.
Check the video, and let me know what you think -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHPULUirnYE
(FYI - He has the blue O-ring on the oil pump, and says he was VERY careful with installing it, and assures me it is in there properly)
Thanks in advance...
MJB
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
Pull the valve covers, see if there is evidence that oil was getting up top. By the sound of the motor, I would say no. Is this a double roller setup on the timing chain? If so, was the spacer installed and installed correctly? What kind of oil pump, did you prime it at all or pack it with assembly lube so it will prime quickly? The o-ring even though he is confident it is installed correctly unfortunately can't be ruled out.
I would also disassemble the valve train and use some Redline assembly lube on the top of the pushrods and valve stems then re-assemble and coat with oil. The motor was run a while with no oil pressure (or very little). Do you know if it was assembled with assembly lube of some type?
I would also disassemble the valve train and use some Redline assembly lube on the top of the pushrods and valve stems then re-assemble and coat with oil. The motor was run a while with no oil pressure (or very little). Do you know if it was assembled with assembly lube of some type?
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 22,185
Likes: 65
From: NJ
It sure sounds like a pinched O-ring. After a minute of running it should have full oil pressure. You really dont have much of a choice but to start with the common issues, o-ring being #1 on the list. From the sound of the engine, you certainly have a pressure problem, but check with a known good mechanical gauge first.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 362
Likes: 60
From: North NJ
Pull the valve covers, see if there is evidence that oil was getting up top. By the sound of the motor, I would say no. Is this a double roller setup on the timing chain? If so, was the spacer installed and installed correctly? What kind of oil pump, did you prime it at all or pack it with assembly lube so it will prime quickly? The o-ring even though he is confident it is installed correctly unfortunately can't be ruled out.
I would also disassemble the valve train and use some Redline assembly lube on the top of the pushrods and valve stems then re-assemble and coat with oil. The motor was run a while with no oil pressure (or very little). Do you know if it was assembled with assembly lube of some type?
I would also disassemble the valve train and use some Redline assembly lube on the top of the pushrods and valve stems then re-assemble and coat with oil. The motor was run a while with no oil pressure (or very little). Do you know if it was assembled with assembly lube of some type?
Yes, there is assembly lube on everything. As a matter of fact, the assembly lube that the engine builder used was like peanut butter - really thick stuff. We used Moroso assembly lube on all the stuff we touched, and it's more like 200 weight oil.
I read some other posts on here about oil pressure and the O ring, and they said that the manual states at idle no lower than 6psi oil pressure. So should we give it a bit more run time before pulling it? It ran for roughly 50 seconds, and the oil pressure was 'climbing' (ok, from 4 to 6 is really a big jump, but at least it went up, and wasn't zero.)
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
How easy is it to drop the oil filter and see if it is full (or did you pre-fill)? I think if it were me, I would look for signs the oil is moving to some degree. The lifters didn't pump up but mine took time and they may not be a good indication. You may also want to do a search, I think someone came up with a way to pre-lube. Other consideration is to pull the plugs, pull the coil connectors and pull the fuel pump fuse and spin the motor with the starter. Less load on bearings. It took a couple of tries but I got 30 psi on mine when I did this after heads.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 976
Likes: 1
From: Lincoln NE
I believe the book says 15 or 18 psi is the min. anythign less will damage the motor. at 4 to 6 somethign is severally wrong IMHO.
I don't know where the steering rack is or how hard it is to get the pump back out...but i'd start there... make sure the o ring is in there.. I let my buddy put the oil pump in after my cam swap and he sweared he put it on... then i pulled it out and realized he was wrong.. But i think even without the o ring i was making like 18-20 psi on an LS1 with ported LS6 pump.
I don't know where the steering rack is or how hard it is to get the pump back out...but i'd start there... make sure the o ring is in there.. I let my buddy put the oil pump in after my cam swap and he sweared he put it on... then i pulled it out and realized he was wrong.. But i think even without the o ring i was making like 18-20 psi on an LS1 with ported LS6 pump.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,364
Likes: 1
From: Rugby North Dakota
I'm thinking o-ring on the oil pump pick up tube - when I did my heads / cam swap, I DISCONNECTED the coil packs and cranked the engine over once or twice for FIVE seconds each time to get the oil pump to prime - THEN, RECONNECT the coil packs and start the engine -
when I did it this way, I was seeing 45 - 60 lbs oil pressure (Melling Oil Pump) within probably 5 seconds at most.
Sounds like there is a serious problem in your case - DON'T run it too long
when I did it this way, I was seeing 45 - 60 lbs oil pressure (Melling Oil Pump) within probably 5 seconds at most.
Sounds like there is a serious problem in your case - DON'T run it too long
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,493
Likes: 1,178
From: Dyer, IN
Yeah, it's not a Corvette, but figure you guys had alot more experience than those CTS-V guys on this matter -
My friend puts a new 408" LQ9 motor in his CTSV, starts it up, and after about 45 seconds of idle time, the oil pressure is still low (6psi).
We are crossover guy from Ford, and mostly when we'd start a new Ford motor up, oil pressure came up quickly but the sensor on the Ford is right at the pump, the sensor on the GM is up near the firewall quite a distance from the pump.
Just wondering how long it normally takes to get decent oil pressure on a fresh motor startup.
Check the video, and let me know what you think -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHPULUirnYE
(FYI - He has the blue O-ring on the oil pump, and says he was VERY careful with installing it, and assures me it is in there properly)
Thanks in advance...
MJB
My friend puts a new 408" LQ9 motor in his CTSV, starts it up, and after about 45 seconds of idle time, the oil pressure is still low (6psi).
We are crossover guy from Ford, and mostly when we'd start a new Ford motor up, oil pressure came up quickly but the sensor on the Ford is right at the pump, the sensor on the GM is up near the firewall quite a distance from the pump.
Just wondering how long it normally takes to get decent oil pressure on a fresh motor startup.
Check the video, and let me know what you think -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHPULUirnYE
(FYI - He has the blue O-ring on the oil pump, and says he was VERY careful with installing it, and assures me it is in there properly)
Thanks in advance...
MJB
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Racer
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 454
Likes: 1
From: Portland Oregon
We had this issue with my buddies 427. Thought for sure it was the pick up tube too but it turned out to be a galley plug on the back of the motor that did not get transfered from the old motor. Good luck to you.
-Ken
-Ken
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 362
Likes: 60
From: North NJ
Where is this plug? Does anyone have a pic of it?
Thanks...
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 988
Likes: 4
From: Livermore CA
The plug looks like a miniture barbell and installs from under the rear crank/cam cover right over the oil filter, this is parallel to the cam and crank. The barbell slides into the oil passage which runs from the front to the rear (5/8ths diameter passage) and forms a block to cause the oil to go through the oil filter/relief assembly. You could definately be missing this part from what you describe and how it sounds. The factory repair manual shows this part.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 946
Likes: 0
From: Port Charlotte Florida
... Theres one behind the rear engine cover and I beleive theres one behind the timing chain cover also. Their only a couple inches long and does look like a miniture bar bell.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,498
Likes: 4
From: Brentwood TN
Another vote for the oil pump pickup O-ring being pinched or out of position.
And WHATEVER you do. do NOT start the engine again. It already has about 45 more seconds of run time on it than it should have if you ran it for a minute. If you prefill the oil filter (and always must) and pull the coil wires, you should have positive pressure just off the starter in less than thirty seconds. If you prefill the filter and light it off without pulling the coil wires and don't have pressure above about 20 psi in 10 seconds or less, shut the thing down.
When you finally find the problem (and I REALLY think the O ring is the bad actor), remove the main bearing caps one at a time and check for scuffing. And be SURE to follow the caution above about checking to see if there is oil in the rockers because the LS engine oils the cam bearings first then the rockers, and then the lower end.
Good luck.
Charlie
And WHATEVER you do. do NOT start the engine again. It already has about 45 more seconds of run time on it than it should have if you ran it for a minute. If you prefill the oil filter (and always must) and pull the coil wires, you should have positive pressure just off the starter in less than thirty seconds. If you prefill the filter and light it off without pulling the coil wires and don't have pressure above about 20 psi in 10 seconds or less, shut the thing down.
When you finally find the problem (and I REALLY think the O ring is the bad actor), remove the main bearing caps one at a time and check for scuffing. And be SURE to follow the caution above about checking to see if there is oil in the rockers because the LS engine oils the cam bearings first then the rockers, and then the lower end.
Good luck.
Charlie
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 15,960
Likes: 21
From: West Norriton PA
St. Jude Donor '08
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
Anyone know if you pull the oil filter cover (above the filter) whether you could see the galley plug? Just thinking it would save a lot of work if there was a simple method to determine whether it was left out.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 362
Likes: 60
From: North NJ
Great, thanks for the tips. First step for him is to pull the trans, bellhousing, etc...And check for the barbell.
If it's there, well, next step pull motor, put stock motor back in, sell car, go to bed.
If it's there, well, next step pull motor, put stock motor back in, sell car, go to bed.
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 15,960
Likes: 21
From: West Norriton PA
St. Jude Donor '08
Sorry to you're having problems, it's very frustrating some times tryingg to figure this crap out.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 362
Likes: 60
From: North NJ
It's easy, if barbell is not there, there is our answer. Take the one out of the stock motor and replace in new motor. This motor was built by a 'professional' and the rear cover was in place when my friend got the motor, so this galley plug was never checked (nor did he even know about it or he would have).
I'll know in a few hours what the story is.