One of the commentators of yesterday's NASCAR race, I think it was Waltrip, said exactly the same thing.

 

Actually GM designed the CTS-V with that in mind...not really the Corvette.

Its the reason the V has not only a "better" brake package but also a far superior hub/bearing assembly is because they wanted to have that BMW/Porsche weekend warrior/spec racer concept.

I'll agree the C5 brakes for pure stopping power are adequate however they do come with their own set of issues. You'd be amazed how much front suspension stiffness helps. I hated the way the C5 would slow from high speeds at the track, it felt mushy and liked to wander. Poly bushings fixed a lot of my brake feel issues. I think Pfadt or Rippie had some video of the bushings deflecting while on a dyno...decel is far harsher than accel.

I crack rotors and I do it all the time. I do not have ducts, stainless steal pistons or the other fixes for the C5 calipers. By the time I added up the prices for that I was only a few hundred away from the Wildwood fronts. Then you have to deal with the pad taper issues.

The caliper was chosen for a number of reasons, mostly its very low profile. The Corvette was the first car built with a knuckle in the wheel design which let them tuck, for the time, large tires under the car with a small offset and still package a decent brake system. The bridge is weak and tends to bend and deflect.

I need new calipers, mine are shot...the boots went a long time ago, I taper pads pretty bad and the system is inconsistent from corner to corner.

Again by the time I factor in all the new parts, Wildwoods are cheaper and are far less likely to taper pads or crack rotors due to their equal pressure on both sides of the rotor.

I've said this plenty of times before, NOTHING beat the brakes on my FD RX7. With Hawk Blue's I could stand on the brakes at 140mph on the track and eat a sandwich at the same time while talking on the phone.

Straight and true everytime, never any fade....but again that was a 4 piston non-floating caliper and the entire front suspension was bushing less, all solid pieces, no defection in the suspension.

I would bet Au's suspension setup is pretty solid from a deflection standpoint which helps a whole lot in braking but it also comes with a lot of street manner trade offs people may not like.

 

When I put in the SS lines I also changed my rotors to drilled and slotted. Cooler rotors, better stopping power. Get rid of the heat! Also, I'm happy with my ceramic brake pads. Good luck...Tom

 

Exactly. Unless your brakes are overheating/fading, what you need is stickier tires, not bigger brakes.

 

Sounds to me like you just need to upgrade to a better pad. I have the Carotech XP 12/10s for my track days and they last the whole session without reaching their max. They may not have as much bite as say Wilwoods, but for my street tires, they work well for me. As I get better, maybe they will max out, but for now, they suit my style. Different brands have different styles so find the ones that suit your style. Good luck in your choice.

 

I assume your doing HPDE's, but what kind of level are you? Just starting out, first 3-5 days, any pad will do for 90% of drivers. I did my first year on GM ceramics. From what it sounds like you may need to step up in pad, but the fade may also be due to your fluid.

IMO an intermediate pad is OK after you get solo or you really notice fade, either case you are going faster and are creating more heat. A real race pad is usually not needed until you go to R-comound tires, again IMO. Different pads work in different heat ranges, basically: street, intermediate, and racing. Just because a pad is 'racing' does not mean you want to run it on the street. They can wear faster and perform poorly when cold i.e. when lower than their operating range. The advice you've recieved may be based on how they think you are using the car and/or what they think your experience level is...

As far as cracking rotors, they all crack if they are Iron based. No matter what they say on them. I imagine that the two piece designs do last longer, but how much?? Drilled and slotted are more marketing, and can even make the brakes worse with the less surface area to use for braking. I've seen a two piece high price rotor crack on the first day on the track (should have been bedded in, the guy drove it on the street for a month or more). So, he had to spend over $300 on one rotor ring, thats like 10 rotors from NAPA.

Add the cooling ducts (not real easy, but I did it) Stainless lines and good fluid. Select a pad based on your experience level.

For me, I picked up a set of Willwood H's and got one weekend last year on them and they still look pretty new. They seem great, less wear than the carbotech x12 and more bite, at least for where I'm at in skills

I'd listen to AU N EGL, he has a lot of good info and knows what works. Big brake kits look sexy, but you may need to spend the money elsewhere, like more time on the track

 

I'd like to add that the FD RX7 was probably about 2700 lbs. It doesn't take as much brake power to slow that down. Another reason why the CTS-V has big brakes on it. It weighs almost 1,000 lbs. more than a Vette.

And yes, those "optional" brake kits on 350Z's are better than stock but probably not better than the stock C5.

 

The stock brakes on a Corvette are VERY good .... here's just one auto magazine's comparison ...

http://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/...g_matching.pdf

you are talking a few feet difference .... and for an average driver those few feet make little difference .... most "average" drivers have both horrible reaction times, and also no idea how to use an "Anti Lock" brake system.

Anyone who thinks GM "shorted" them on the brake system needs to re-evaluate their "criteria" ... the Corvette has an EXCELLENT stock brake system on it.

 

Everything you've done with the exception of the SS lines compromises your brakes at the track level.

 

Not sure what the price will be at the GM dealership but since the new ZR1 runs Ferrari Enzo front brakes in back and Ferrrari FXX brakes (cut down) in front it should give an idea. The Enzo front brake rotors where $24,000 a set and the pads were $6,000 a set. The Ferrari owner was lamenting that track day weekends where going to start getting expensive when he had to start replacing those. They do however last a LOT longer.

 

I put baer big brakes on my firehawk and at first didn't like how much weight they put on the front but know after driving with them for a few years I have to say that the stopping distance has decreased dramatically. At first I said this is not good and would not do it again but I think that I would like it if it didn't put so much weight on the front like say ceramic rotors or maybe Brembo? The Baer kit was like $1200 for the front plus installation and shipping from T-Byrne

 

Same Brembo system used on the New ZR1, Porsche Carrara and Ferrari Enzo, FXX and the 599GTB. ( the Ferrari 599 GTB uses the AC Delco magnetic shock system same as the ZR1)

The pads and rotor will last a long time for NORMAL street use. But not on the track. Just like race pads, one weekend maybe two track weekends and the pads are shot. Rotors are going too.

Carbon Ceramic pads and rotors are also made in different levels or compositions for different uses. IIRC the use of the CCB is to reduce rotational or unsprong wt, not necessarily be a better brake system.

Besides if anyone has experienced more then 1G braking, there left shoulder with normal belts would be blue, and very sore or with a harness system both shoulders would be hurting and the contents of your stomach . . . .






again, some times being a little slower or braking just a bit sooner, is much faster overall.

 

The stock brakes are great! Like other have mentioned consider getting a set of race pads, ss line, DOT4 fluid, and brake cooling and you will be very impressed with the brakes!

I just bought some Wilwood SL6-R brakes, I really have always wanted 6 pot brakes and my stock brakes with 80K on them are starting to show some pad taper and such. Will the Wilwoods outpreform the stock braking system? I am not to sure. I know pads should last longer and in the end should pay for themselves. We will see this coming year...

I have used Porterfield, Carbotech, and Hawk pads so far. I really like the DTC 70 in the fronts and 60s in the rear. Nice pads for sure.

Adam

 

As the one who started this rant on Sunday i would like all to know that I am more relaxed now

Anyway, I do have a few lingering questions.

1) Some have mentioned stainless pistons, some have not. So, can I have some clarification first on what this entails, who does it? etc. Next, is this really worth it (since so many did not mention it) ??

2) Say i go the "pad for the street and another pad for the track" mentality, is it OK to use the same rotors with the different pads?


Also, on the lighter side, the bright red caliper paint I applied two years ago has quickly darkened and faded since I have visited the track...

 

I have a set of stock calipers that have the Titantium pistons in or the track. Got them from VBP, they were like $400 a caliper.

I have the complete set of front and rear brake calipers w/brackets sitting in my basement.

The calipers need some paint and don't have much usage on them. I'm away this week but can get some pictures over the weekend if any of you are interested in them.

The rear calipers have the standard pistons in them. I'll let them go for $500 shipped.

PM if interested and I'll send you some pictures over the weekend, based on how I receive the PM's in my box.

 

Not to sure on the SS pistons, I have heard good things from them, but no personal experience...Roc Linkov here at the NCM is about to install them on his C5, so we will hear in the next couple months if he is happy with them.

I use the same rotors on the track as I do on the street. I do not change then at all.....I just change the pads to street pads when I head home....

 

SS pistons help with reduce heat transfer to the piston. the Stock pistons are aluminum and actually heat up quicker, which may lead to pad taper.

Yes but more NO. If you only do two three track events a year. just take spray brake fluid cleaner and clean the each side of the rotor. Let it dry and put on the other pads. Bed in the pads as normal. Challenge here is you must do this twice, once before the track weekend and once after the track weekend.


If your calipers are STILL RED.... your not braking hard enough to generate heat.

 

I have a cool looking set of cross drilled and slotted rotors I use for the street with my street pads. People can say what they want, the drilled and slotted look good. I drive my car like a woman on the street so it doesn't matter about performance. I put the cheapest rotors I can find (Rock Auto) on for the track .

 

What rims do you have on the vette, they look good.

 

Thanks. They are the SSR GT7s. I really like them. They look nice and are easy to keep clean. You have to keep your brake calipers clean because when rolling down the highway, that is all you can see!