OK,
So I am officially addicted to road racing events... But, I am starting to get upset with GM. I have installed C5Z06 pads on my 99, and I have also reached their limit. Certainly, I am trying to use less brake and scrub speed with my tires through the turns but I am still upset.
You see, I have been in the passenger seat of some crazy fast cars during the HPDE's and have noticed that the cars with BIG brakes have a huge advantage. I rode with a 25+ year veteran in a C6 and commented on his awesome braking power, and he noted that he bought a Brembo big brake kit. I don't know if anyone has noticed, but they are about $6,000 front & rear.

Now, why are the Nissan 350Z's, G35's, and even the Cadillac CTS-V's coming from the factory with much better brakes than the Corvette? Why don't we don't even have the option???

The 350Z has an option package called "Track Version"... I would love to fork up the cash for a Corvette "Track Version" if it came with some Brembos (or other branded big brakes, I am not just praising Brembos...)...

PS: The serious C6Z06 guys are even complaining about their brakes.

 

Feel better?

 

I would venture to say the stock braking system is great for 90% of all Corvette owners.

What do you think the mark up on a "Track Version" Corvette would be? I am sure it would be more then the $6,k upgrade to some better brakes.

I just completed on 07 Z51 brake upgrade on my car.

 

Get the ZR1 brakes when they come out.

 

Didnt T1 rules require that C5 Z06's competing use the stock rotors and stock calipers and only allowed piston, fluid, brake line and pad changes?

I would hazard a guess that T1 champion winners are/were harder on brakes than 99.725% of HPDE and Open Track day drivers.

So braided steel lines, stainless steel pistons, 600* Motul fluid and Hawk racing pads when combined with sticky tyres should have you staying right up there with the $6000 brake brigade.

Just wondering out loud - as I can't imagine John Heinrichy would have raced the car he built if it was not pretty capable with just a few tweaks within the rules.

Oh, and the maintenance on such T1-able brakes is maybe $100 a weekend... compared to who knows what for the other setups

 

Haha, I wonder what those bad boys would cost, carbon ceramic rotors and such.

 

They were made for a Ferrari, so I don't think they are going to be cheap. But they are supposed to be the best brakes on a Corvette to date.

 

Well, on the Z the price difference is about $3k, plus there is more than just brakes in the package. Furthermore if it can be done in a CTS-V, than why not a vette??

If even the same system as the CTS-V was offered then the numbers would work in our favor. The more GM needed, the cheaper it would be for all...


No doubt, once my driving improves (and I have a long way to go) I will drive around my brakes, but that doesn't mean I am happy with the brakes...

 

Pads, stainless lines, fluid, cooling ducts and stainless pistons will allow you to grow to that level for a fraction of the cost of a "Big Brag", I mean "Big Brake" kit

 

As I understand the ZR1 setup, it will require a lot more than just a caliper, mounts, and rotors swap. They mentioned that the heat required larger wheel bearings and other chamges to deal with it. No easy deal there.

 

I'd also respectfully point out that you are talking about a '99 C-5 vs a brand new vehicle or one that is not even available yet. Racing is always a case where how fast you go is related to how fast you can afford to spend.

 

Try a set of Hawk HP Plus pads (not the HPS) and I think you'll be pleased with the better stopping power and fade resistance over the Z06 pads ...

 

here

BBK are for ppl with deep pockets.

The stock PBR calipers with great race pads and stock rotors stop exceptionally well. In many cases better then BBKS.

Put on some rear racing brake pads:

Hawk DTC-70 front & DTC-60 rear ( pads of choice now)
Wilwood H
PCF-01s or 05s
Carbotech XP12 front & XP10 rear

DOT 4 race brake fluid
Castrol SRF
Motul 600

SS lines

and FRESH tires. Your front tires have more to do with stopping then ppl think

 

This is the route I will take. I already have the stainless lines and i put the C5 Z06 pads on and flushed with ATE fluid. At $270 for just pads, I disagree with the $100 per weekend maintenance quote, considering the cost of rotors also. I will probably buy the DRE cooling ducts before my next event.


What I am saying is, isn't too much brake better than not enough?? I mean, I know that most of the people who drive a Mercedes Benz won't ever touch the capability of their huge brakes, but they are there in case they want to. I just don't see why people in the market for a new C6 don't have the option. I don't think that many people really need carbon ceramic rotors, or whatever system the ZR1 will have, but why not some decent 4 or 6 piston calipers as an option?

I may never evolve into the driver that really needs the big brakes, and that is fine. I certainly don't plan on spending the cash for them on a car that has a market value of $16k-$19k. I simply think it is silly that a $30k Nissan has the option but GM's flagship does not, even when GM's luxury cars do. Thats all.

Its like saying a car's seatbelt does a good enough job when it is ripped in half, so thats OK with me...

 

The "Big Brake" kits are no more effective than your current brakes unless you are using some VERY sticky tires. I bet you can brake hard enough at the track to turn on your ABS .... "better" brakes will not be able to stop you any faster ....

Where you will notice a difference is in the ability of your brake pads to perform at higher temperatures .... which is why I recommended Hawk HP+ pads ($225.00 for fronts and rears) and AU_N_EGL recommended the DTC-70 and 60 combination .... good prices (and service) from these guys ...

http://www.livermoreperformance.com/...pads.html#hawk

Why should Chevy put "better" brakes on the Corvette when the ones they have now can turn on the ABS .... try the Hawk pads (the HP+ can be used on the street and track, I think you'll find the DTC are pretty much track only) and when you need rotors go to NAPA Auto Parts and get the rotors that cost about $40.00 apiece .... DO NOT spend the money for GM pads or rotors, the prices are .

 

When ppl start DRIVING those other cars with BIG NAME brakes too see how they really work? vs just looking between the wheel spokes at the name. you will be very happy with how well the PBR brakes really work.

a Big name or more pistons DOES NOT MEAN they brakes work better.

You want better brakes put a wider and stickier front tire on.

I run a 12" wide FRONT tire. Wilwood H brake pads, Castrol SRF brake fluid on stock Raybestous rotors. I can brake hard enough to make my car feel like it is doing a motorcycle stoppie. I can stop or underbrake most cars with BBKs. or maybe my nads are bigger and brains are smaller

Even with a BBK one still needs to flush brake fluid before each track weekend. Rotors need to be checked before each weekend. D/S dont last any longer and many times crack much sooner. Thicker rotors means more mass, so yes that will last longer, but that is also added wt so it will take longer to stop the car from high speeds too. trade offs.

 

In the hopes of making this more productive...

When I started looking for pads I was told by several people that there would be no difference between the c5 Z06 pads and the hawk pads. The fade at high temps was noticeable, but as I have already said I am not a racecar driver...

I have been told not to run race pads also. So I guess I am just getting frustrated because the information changes so much depending on who you talk to.

So, I ask, should I ditch the C5 Z06 pads when they are worn out? It shouldn't take too long, as I can't even pass tech inspection without a large amount of pad remaining.


The only vette I have riden in that had big brakes was owned by a very nice, down to earth man that is in his 50s. i doubt he really cares about how pretty his brakes are and who looks at them. I also don't buy things for my car to impress other people. My car appears stock, down to the Ti exhaust tips. But, if something is safer, performs better (which is the general opinion, I am NOT saying that they in fact are better) and popular with other car manufacturers then why not put them on the Vette from the factory, instead of just drilling rotors and painting calipers?

 

Big brake kits provide a more even pad wear, bigger sweep area and lighter two piece rotor design.

I happen to run Wilwoods, some run Brembos, Baers, StopTech, APS, etc ...

They are all good kits and work well. The dis-advantage of BB Kits is their width as they create a need for larger off-sets and most guys don't want to replace their rims at the same time.

 

I think I understand your confusion ..... let me make a few observations ....

Hawk is a pad manufaturer, they make 7 different compounds for the Corvette. In order of their ability to resist fade and work at high temperatures ... Ceramic (DO NOT USE for the track), HPS, HP+, Blue, HT-10, DTC-60 and DTC-70. IMHO the stock Z06 pads fall in between the HPS and the HP+ pads. The HP+ work well for HPDE type events, and can be used as a street pad also (they are squeaky when cold). The DTC pads are really "track only" pads, they really don't even start to generate brake torque until the brakes have heated to about 400 degrees. They will still work (not fade) at rotor temperatures of 1600 degrees .... they are a "race" compound.

What I'd do is consider ordering a set of the DTC pads, drive to the track with your Z06 pads on the car, and change to the race pads at the track. Change back when your track sessions are over ... the Z06 pads are good street pads, no point in trashing them while they havee useful life.

If you don't want to be changing pads at the track, try the HP+, as I said before, I think you'll like them.

I think the drilled rotors for the C6 were more a choice of the marketing side than the engineers. Face it, 80 percent of the Corvettes sold are sold to people who have no intention of taking the car to the track. And the engineers knew that the best type of rotor for the track was a flat vented design .... the drilling is "bling" pure and simple.

There are some pretty "racey" guys working on the Corvette ... guys like John Heinrecy, and he runs "stock" brakes on his Corvette's in SCCA (though to be fair the rules of that class require "stock") and you'd think he'd put better brakes on the car if he felt they were an "issue" for racing.

Finally, a race instructor one time pointed out to me that the best braking is not the "Michael Schumacher" method ... at least not for us "regular" drivers. He pointed out that if I was to attempt to wait for the last possible place to brake, brake 100 percent, come off the brakes and make the corner hitting the apex (within inches) EVERY corner and EVERY lap, then one corner my "luck" will run out. I'll miss the braking point by just a few feet, and with no margin for error, then I miss the apex by a few feet .... and well, you get the idea .... Now the other interesting thing he pointed out, and I've since realized is true, is let's say I'm in 2nd place behind a guy who's been doing 100 percent braking for the whole race, while I've been braking a little earlier and using say 80 to 90 percent of my brakes. Now, if I want to have a "braking duel" with him in the closing laps, who's got the better car ??? I do ... My front tires aren't as hot (or worn) my brakes aren't as hot (or worn), I have more "capacity" now than he does. Sometimes being a little "slower" is the best way to go fast .....

 

you also have to realize that GM designed the car to be a weekend warrior that you can drive to and from the track. 90% of the owners don't do any track time. So why make the car more expensive. Also, many here do fine with the stock brakes with racing pads and a set of sticker tires. I see most of the "track version" packages as gimmicks to get you to spend more money. I used to own a g35 with the brembo package and that car in no way stopped better than my Z. When I had the stock Z pads in, it still out braked and didn't start to fade as quickly as the G35 did. Granted that the Brembo G35 lasted longer till brake fade than the regular brake packaged g35 did. I think you just need to practice more on your lines and such and then once you get better, than upgrade to a BBK if you still feel the need.