poor tune? tuners read
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,655
Likes: 9
From: Avon Indiana
St. Jude Donor '09
poor tune? tuners read
A few months ago A friend put his HP tuners laptop on my car for a few full throttle hits and he recorded a max of 21 degrees advance. The car was running 11.8s at 116-117. It has run as fast as 11.65@118. Im not sure but i thought that even stock advance was around 28 or 29. He also said that the max knock retard was .25 degree. My combo is 99A4 vert ls6 with dart205s, mti R1 cam ,kooks 1 3\4 headers, 3000 protorque, 3.73 gears, ported TB, big filter and big air bridge . according to the tuner it made about 393 rwhp and 340 TQ. how can you get accurate numbers if you ease into the gas? I thought it sounded low but ive never had a car dynoed before. I later found out that because they had no way to keep the a4 from kicking down a gear on the dyno that they ease into the gas when they are making a pull. Does this sound like 
or what? Ive got to think that if Im not getting alot of knock retard that bumping advance should be worth 15 HP. Any tuners out there think this is a bogus tune? Maybe you tuners might tell me that 393 hP is about right for this combo. I really thought the car would run 120mph. Please any input is welcome. I didnt want to say the tuners name but I will say they are not in Indiana. Thanks, Norm
or what? Ive got to think that if Im not getting alot of knock retard that bumping advance should be worth 15 HP. Any tuners out there think this is a bogus tune? Maybe you tuners might tell me that 393 hP is about right for this combo. I really thought the car would run 120mph. Please any input is welcome. I didnt want to say the tuners name but I will say they are not in Indiana. Thanks, Norm
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,375
Likes: 328
From: CA.
St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15
Tuners are always the 1st to blame for any problems that show up--You are asking questions that can't be answered---without having the car and data -logging the KR or timing--Some STOCK combinations have more timing sure----But with your aftermarket heads--your compression may have been increased--depends on what type of gas you are running too----how lean or rich your WOT fueling is--how close your VE table is and what your actual AFR is--So many things can affect timimg--On my hds/cam car with LS6 style heads--stock LS6 compression--I can't go over 24* with 91 octane Calif gas or i get KR--
I wouldn't worry to much about the timing--There are 2 schools of thought--1 way is to fatten the fuel up and add more timing--and the other is to lean it down and take some timing out--I haven't seen any advantage either way--There are 100's of pages on most LS1 forums on timing--My opinion is that it all doesn't amount to a hill on beans--Not much of a change either way you do it--No way 15 HP is on the table going from 24 to 29
Now a full race application with 115 oct fuel--Locked in timing--you may see some advantage on an engine constantly run up around 6-7000
I wouldn't worry to much about the timing--There are 2 schools of thought--1 way is to fatten the fuel up and add more timing--and the other is to lean it down and take some timing out--I haven't seen any advantage either way--There are 100's of pages on most LS1 forums on timing--My opinion is that it all doesn't amount to a hill on beans--Not much of a change either way you do it--No way 15 HP is on the table going from 24 to 29
Now a full race application with 115 oct fuel--Locked in timing--you may see some advantage on an engine constantly run up around 6-7000
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,660
Likes: 9
From: Charlotte, NC
It is completely normal for them to roll onto the gas for an auto. That is what must be done to dyno them in 3rd gear.
However, by the time 4,000 rpm or so rolls around, the car is at WOT (floored) so they are recording maximum power...just like they should.
Your timing does sound a bit low, but if you had KR, then your tuner did the right thing by backing down the timing to save your engine.
So far, it looks like your tuner did all of the right things. You need to find out why your getting KR. I'm on the same quest for my vehicle.
However, by the time 4,000 rpm or so rolls around, the car is at WOT (floored) so they are recording maximum power...just like they should.
Your timing does sound a bit low, but if you had KR, then your tuner did the right thing by backing down the timing to save your engine.
So far, it looks like your tuner did all of the right things. You need to find out why your getting KR. I'm on the same quest for my vehicle.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,356
Likes: 1
From: Chesapeake Va
The biggest differences in the timing tables is between egr and non egr cars. The egr cars had much more timing in them, in the tables that is.
I think yours is a non egr car. I think they drop em after 98 but not positive. It was either 99 or 2000 they were gone.
As for running it on a dyno, you can lock them in 3rd and lock the converter and run them wide open from pretty low in the rpms. You do it with the bi-directional controls in t he tuning software. Gives you a much better picture of the HP and TQ. Makes it more like running a 6 speed car.
I think yours is a non egr car. I think they drop em after 98 but not positive. It was either 99 or 2000 they were gone.
As for running it on a dyno, you can lock them in 3rd and lock the converter and run them wide open from pretty low in the rpms. You do it with the bi-directional controls in t he tuning software. Gives you a much better picture of the HP and TQ. Makes it more like running a 6 speed car.
