Here is the story:

This past weekend i did a DE at MAM in Iowa.. I started the weekend in my 2000 FRC with a brand new set of Hawk HP+ pads and good stock rotars.

I ended the weekend with 1/8th to 1/4 inch deep gouges in my rotars( 1 partially heat cracked i believe ) and the pads nearly 80% worn.

I ran hard, but i let the brakes cool properly after every 20 minute session, and they felt consistant the whole time, but they wore terribly bad..

This car is my daily driver as well. So i hate the thought of needing new rotars and pads after every DE.. not cool.

I am curious what everyone recommends for pads/rotars that are good for HPDE's and will last a little better. I Don't need more stopping power, the car stops GREAT, it just eats components with the current setup so something has to change!

I was told that i MUST invest in the brake cooling ducts that go directly to the front calipers, and i will surely be doing so.

But i want to replace these current pads and rotars with something that will stop well, and last longer than 1 DE.

Thanks in advance for any help!!

 

If you did a 2 day DE, it is quite possible that the wear you are seeing is "normal".

I don't know MAM, but some tracks are "worse" for brakes than others. With the power of a Corvette, tracks that tend to have straight runs between corners allow us to generate much more speed before a corner than say, a BMW 3 series car. We have to scrub off more speed, as the corner entry speed (assuming about equal drivers) is gonna be about the same for both cars.

Other tracks (often referred to as "technical" tracks) are more like one corner after another, with little speed difference corner to corner ... these tracks are more about where you place the car than speed. A good example is Infinion ....

http://www.infineonraceway.com/image...nascar_web.jpg

From corners 7 to 10 (downhill run with increasing speed corner to corner) you have to position the car perfectly for each corner ... if you exit 7 incorrectly your entry to 8 is wrong ... which makes your entry to 8A worse .... Darrel Waltrip once spun off in 10 in a Cup race ... interviewed later, and asked what "happened" ... he said "I spun off in 7, but I didn't know it until 10"

DE's put more wear on a car .... take a close look at your tires ..... especially the outer edge of the left front tires if you run the track clockwise, and the outer edge of the right front tires if the track is run counter-clockwise.

Most folks that do DE's purchase rotors from Napa, for example, both because the quality is good, and the price is right. Napa part numbers ...

NB 4886700
NB 4886701
NB 4886702
NB 4886703

They charge about $42.00 per front rotor and $37.00 per rear rotor.

I use the Hawk HP+ pads also. I like them for HPDEs ... Hawk makes more aggressive pads for racing, but the HP+ work great for me.

DE's cost money ... but the smile they put on your face is PRICELESS ....

 

You are better off posting this in the autocross/ road racing section.

This is an often talked about subject over there.

The fact is that road racing/HPDEs are hard on the braking system.

The general advice given is to switch to a better brake fluid with a higher boiling point, upgrade the brake pads (I think a lot of people like the HP+ pads), and get a lot of air to the brakes via ducts and spindles.

Since most of the braking is done by the front brakes a number of HPDErs have upgraded their front brakes with an after-market system. I know LG motorsports offers a popular system. In the long-run save money because the brake pads and calipers hold up much better.

For rotors most just use the NAPA rotors and keep spares handy in case they crack a rotor. I think the rotors go for around $35/each these days.

 

Well, a Carbotech set up of 10s up front and 8s in the back will normally last quite awhile. I do run air to the rotors. But, 1/4" gouges in the rotors? What was happening there?

 

For a number of years I ran the stock pads at HPDEs on my 97. I could usually get 2 days at the track with them and a few months street duty afterwards. This was at high speed tracks like Watkins Glen and Pocono. Then I switched to the HP+ for an event at Pocono. The pads were shot in one day and the original rotors that had seen a lot of track days over the 3 previous seasons with no damage were scored so badly they were not salvageable. Haven't run HP+ since. If you want to go to a racing pad you can run the PFC 01 or the Wilwood H pads. They will last through two to three 2 day events and the rotors will last about as long before they crack. I mean crack all the way through not the little hairline surface cracks. My rear rotors usually crack more often than the fronts even with AH/TC turned completely off.

Bill

 

maybe 1/4" is slightly exaggerated.. lol but they are VERY bad grooves ..

I like the idea of NAPA rotors, thats a price that wont kill me!

so far it looks like i need to buy :
1) new napa rotors
2) NOT new hawk HP+ pads.. but some of the other ones mentioned
3) brake cooling ducts

and then i should last quite a bit longer.

right?

 

Welcome to the Dark side or really welcome to the LIGHT of how corvettes should be driven

Now the bad news, Hawk HP+ only last one day, maybe two days for a newbie.

There are NO brake pads that can do double duty and last much past two weekends. Of course you will need to bleed your brakes before and after each track weekend

NAPA part numbers

86700
86701
86702
86703
Carbotech XP12 front and XP10 rear are very good race pads that can also work on the street. You may have some low speed squeaking when braking on the street.

 

 

i will be investing in these then

So i am a bit on a Newbie when it comes to tracking my vette, only been doing it since last year. I managed a 1:48.2 at MAM and the car sure seemed to suffer

The time i was happy with, but being that hard on my daily driver car was not a great feeling.

I do have a truck that i will soon be using to trailer my vette to and back from the track events, allowing me to run a nice agressive alignment at the track and not worry about wearing tires out on the drive ( i am 2 hours away from my closest track HPT and 4 hours from MAM )


So i am under the impression that with these new pads/rotors and the proper cooling duct setup i should be in at least a little better shape than i would be in i were to continue running no cooling and HP+ pads. right? lol

edit: forgot to mention that i have goodridge steel braided lines and i run motul 600 fluid

 

My C5 used to be my daily driver. I used to Auto-x and HPDE just about every chance I got. Technical tracks or short Auto-x did little to the car in the way of wear and tear. I didn't say no wear and tear but not a lot. You will still wear things like tires, brakes, shocks and bushings out faster than if you just kept it on the street.

Two things will greatly increase this wear. Using competition compound racing tires, slicks etc.. and higher speed tracks. The stickier rubber allows for much more extreme braking and causes much larger g-loads on the suspension parts. This increases the heat load on the brakes, bearings, and tie-rod ends. Add in higher speeds for a longer track and the heat load is extreme. This is the only advantage of going to a big brake kit. It doesn't provide better braking it provides better heat tolerance and management to provide better braking over repeated stops.

I learned the hard way on some of this plus my car has been retired from daily driver duty and sees little track time anymore, 2 kids now. One thing though was that I learned a lot about working on these cars myself and can now just about fix anything on them. It really helps keep the little racing I do now from causing budget issues.

 

Some what longer. I use Wilwood H brake pads and Castrol SRF brake fluid. Napa rotors last me 3 weekend front and 5 weekends rear.

Come on over to the Autocross & Road Racing forum under Corvette General. Where all the track rats take that late apex and plant the right foot to the floor

 

will do.

I think in order to keep up on maintainence on the car i may be waiting till later in the year to do any more track events. It was just too hard on the car the way i drove it.

for now im going to replace my rotors, get the cooling ducts, and some street/track pads.. just in case i decide to do an auto X a month or so... at least ill have good enough parts to pass tech. lol

 

I run HP+ pads on the stock rotors and get about 6 full track days plus street use. The Autox/Racing section guys will tell you that you need dedicated pads for street and track. I obviously don't agree for running track days. I think what probably happened with you is that your rotor cracked then started scraping away at your pads. I personally believe that the rotors tend to crack in the paddock, when the super hot pads are on the rotor in one spot. Thus, you should cool down on the track for a few laps to let the temps come down before coming to a complete stop. I also use Motul 600 brake fluid and SS brake lines. The pedal feel and fade resistance is much, much improved over stock.

 

This is correct. Rotors dont crack on the track, they crack in the paddock from not properly cooling down. Then after you come to a stop at your paddock, 3-5 min later roll your car 1/2 wheel turn to move the hot pads away from the cooler rotor.

 

Hey! I got one right

 

 

good info, i always do 1 full cooldown lap without touching the brakes AT ALL before pulling into the paddock and rolling to a stop.

moving the car forward a bit after getting into the paddock is a good idea as well!