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Up-date On Bill C Engine Mods (not Good)
Thread Starter
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Up-date On Bill C Engine Mods (not Good)
Well, its all back together! 
I up loaded some basic parameters into EFI Live and flashed them in (thanks for the help billdog350) I turned the key and it fired RIGHT up 
and idled well and sounded very strong. Open headers ROCK! 
I waited 15, 30, 60,,,,, 90 seconds for the oil pressure to build and ZILCH. 
I let it sit for a bit and fired it up again. Man it sounds good!
No pressure. 
Well,, if you call 3 psi pressure. 
So tonight is LACK OF OIL TROUBLESHOOTING NIGHT!
Here s what I know.
I was careful with installation of the O ring. Didn't looked liked it pinched
I primed the filter prior to installation.
No leaks
Oil pump was centered on the hub and reinstalled
Oil pressure sender was working fine prior to MODS and the wiring connector was not disturbed and is still plugged in.
Engine sounds really good (no weird noises (only ran it 90 sec max then a quick 30 sec re-check)
So,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,i guess i be busy tonight!
Bill Curlee
I up loaded some basic parameters into EFI Live and flashed them in (thanks for the help billdog350) I turned the key and it fired RIGHT up and idled well and sounded very strong. Open headers ROCK! I waited 15, 30, 60,,,,, 90 seconds for the oil pressure to build and ZILCH. I let it sit for a bit and fired it up again. Man it sounds good! No pressure. Well,, if you call 3 psi pressure. So tonight is LACK OF OIL TROUBLESHOOTING NIGHT!
Here s what I know.
I was careful with installation of the O ring. Didn't looked liked it pinched
I primed the filter prior to installation.
No leaks
Oil pump was centered on the hub and reinstalled
Oil pressure sender was working fine prior to MODS and the wiring connector was not disturbed and is still plugged in.
Engine sounds really good (no weird noises (only ran it 90 sec max then a quick 30 sec re-check)
So,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,,i guess i be busy tonight!Bill Curlee
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,720
Likes: 3
From: East Hampton CT
Bill, glad to hear the "base" tune got you running well...but sucks about the oil issue! O-ring and oil pick up tube are the obvious points....also with all of the things you've done...did you check oil level? Sometimes people get distracted repairing lawn tractors and.......
Lets hope its something simple and not time consuming (oil pressure sender "happened" to crap out at the same time).....do you have a manual oil pressure gauge to check at your current oil pressure sensor location?
I'm not super familiar with Ls1 lubrication issues...hopefully some of the more seasoned veterans on the forum can speak up. I know the o ring is the issue 90% of the time from what I've seen. Did you re-use your o-ring or get a new one?
Lets hope its something simple and not time consuming (oil pressure sender "happened" to crap out at the same time).....do you have a manual oil pressure gauge to check at your current oil pressure sensor location?
I'm not super familiar with Ls1 lubrication issues...hopefully some of the more seasoned veterans on the forum can speak up. I know the o ring is the issue 90% of the time from what I've seen. Did you re-use your o-ring or get a new one?
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,720
Likes: 3
From: East Hampton CT
Here are the directions from the GM ESI manual.
Oil Pressure Diagnosis and Testing
* Tools Required J 21867 Pressure Gage and Hose Assembly
* J 42907 Oil Pressure Testing Tool
Object Number: 416607 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.
1. With the vehicle on a level surface, run the vehicle for a few minutes, allow adequate drain down time of 2-3 minutes and measure the oil level.
2. If required, add the recommended grade engine oil and fill the crankcase until the oil level measures full on the oil level indicator.
3. Run the engine briefly, 10-15 seconds, and verify low or no oil pressure on the vehicle gauge or light.
4. Listen for a noisy valve train or a knocking noise.
5. Inspect for the following conditions:
* Oil diluted by water or glycol - antifreeze
* Foamy oil
6. Remove the oil filter and install the J 42907 .
7. Install J 21867 or equivalent to the J 42907 .
8. Run the engine and measure the engine oil pressure.
9. Compare the readings to Engine Mechanical Specifications .
10. If the engine oil pressure is below specifications, inspect the engine for one or more of the following conditions:
* Oil pump worn or dirty Refer to Oil Pump Cleaning and Inspection .
* Oil pump-to-engine block bolts loose Refer to Oil Pump, Pump Screen and Deflector Installation .
* Oil pump screen loose, plugged, or damaged
* Oil pump screen O-ring seal missing or damaged
* Malfunctioning oil pump pressure regulator valve
* Excessive bearing clearance
* Cracked, porous, or restricted oil galleries
* Oil gallery plugs missing or incorrectly installed Refer to Engine Block Plug Installation .
* Broken valve lifters Repair as necessary
11. If the oil pressure reading on the J 21867 or equivalent is within specifications, inspect for the following conditions:
* Plugged or incorrect oil filter and/or malfunctioning oil bypass valve
* Malfunctioning oil pressure gage or sensor Repair as necessary.
* Tools Required J 21867 Pressure Gage and Hose Assembly
* J 42907 Oil Pressure Testing Tool
Object Number: 416607 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.
1. With the vehicle on a level surface, run the vehicle for a few minutes, allow adequate drain down time of 2-3 minutes and measure the oil level.
2. If required, add the recommended grade engine oil and fill the crankcase until the oil level measures full on the oil level indicator.
3. Run the engine briefly, 10-15 seconds, and verify low or no oil pressure on the vehicle gauge or light.
4. Listen for a noisy valve train or a knocking noise.
5. Inspect for the following conditions:
* Oil diluted by water or glycol - antifreeze
* Foamy oil
6. Remove the oil filter and install the J 42907 .
7. Install J 21867 or equivalent to the J 42907 .
8. Run the engine and measure the engine oil pressure.
9. Compare the readings to Engine Mechanical Specifications .
10. If the engine oil pressure is below specifications, inspect the engine for one or more of the following conditions:
* Oil pump worn or dirty Refer to Oil Pump Cleaning and Inspection .
* Oil pump-to-engine block bolts loose Refer to Oil Pump, Pump Screen and Deflector Installation .
* Oil pump screen loose, plugged, or damaged
* Oil pump screen O-ring seal missing or damaged
* Malfunctioning oil pump pressure regulator valve
* Excessive bearing clearance
* Cracked, porous, or restricted oil galleries
* Oil gallery plugs missing or incorrectly installed Refer to Engine Block Plug Installation .
* Broken valve lifters Repair as necessary
11. If the oil pressure reading on the J 21867 or equivalent is within specifications, inspect for the following conditions:
* Plugged or incorrect oil filter and/or malfunctioning oil bypass valve
* Malfunctioning oil pressure gage or sensor Repair as necessary.
Tech Contributor
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,100
Likes: 17
From: Somers, CT and Clermont, FL
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16
I'm sorry to hear this Bill. I can feel your pain and frustration all the way up here near the MA border!
There was a thread about "low oil pressure" on the Forum awhile back.
It turned out to be a piece of debris in the oil pump relief valve,which caused it to stay partially open. Keep us posted.
There was a thread about "low oil pressure" on the Forum awhile back.
It turned out to be a piece of debris in the oil pump relief valve,which caused it to stay partially open. Keep us posted.
Thread Starter
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
I'm bitting the bullet and getting a new pump/and O ring.
I used the old OEM pump and debated on whether i should have replaced it.
Oh well,,,,, thanks Mr Murphy. for that education!
I'll have it apart tonight. Heres another question. Order and install an LS6 pump OR Order and install an LS2 pump ( LS2 pump takes a lot longer to get than an LS6 ZO6 pump.
Is there that much difference between the LS6 and LS2???? If so,,,what is the difference????
Thanks
Bill
I used the old OEM pump and debated on whether i should have replaced it.
Oh well,,,,, thanks Mr Murphy. for that education! I'll have it apart tonight. Heres another question. Order and install an LS6 pump OR Order and install an LS2 pump ( LS2 pump takes a lot longer to get than an LS6 ZO6 pump.
Is there that much difference between the LS6 and LS2???? If so,,,what is the difference????
Thanks
Bill
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Tech Contributor
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,731
Likes: 82
From: New Market AL
I have a friend that installed an LS2 in his '99 F-body, and he had no oil pressure to the top end either. He thinks his particular problem is a plug or plate back around the oil filter adapter (?). If I hear that he found out for certain what the problem was, I will pass it on to you.
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,720
Likes: 3
From: East Hampton CT
Sounds like they've superceeded the previous part numbers with the latest revision. Of course the LS7 would be different since its a dry sump
New o-ring and pump, I vote that solves the issue! Good luck Bill!
New o-ring and pump, I vote that solves the issue! Good luck Bill!
Thread Starter
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
That oil galley plug is behind the engine and behind the bell housing. All I did was a heads,cam /intake swap with the engine in the car so, its not the issue. I also checked the oil sending unit a couple of times during intake install. Its intact and connected. I most likely pinched the O ring but, until I get my A$$ out in the garage and rip it down, speculation isn't going to get it fixed.
Thanks for all your support. I will keep you informed as to if I find a smoking gun!
Have a new Melling Oil Pump on order!
BC
Thanks for all your support. I will keep you informed as to if I find a smoking gun!
Have a new Melling Oil Pump on order!
BC
Tech Contributor
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,100
Likes: 17
From: Somers, CT and Clermont, FL
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16
The Melling pump is an excellent choice.I put one in my Silverado truck
last winter, and it increased the oil pressure by 15-20 LBS.
The new pump and o-ring will be money well spent!
last winter, and it increased the oil pressure by 15-20 LBS.
The new pump and o-ring will be money well spent!
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 24,652
Likes: 298
From: NJ
St. Jude Donor '05-'08
Melling is the way to go. It is in all the ECS cars.
Bill - I assume that your tach and other things were working properly when you didnt see any oil pressure correct?
I just say that because one time after Doug did some last min tuning I started a car and didnt see any oil pressure. I shut it right down and said Doug there is no pressure. He said did you see if the other gauges worked and I said no so I started again and still nothing. He said disconnect the battery and reset everything. I did that and then everything worked. Doug mentioned that it happens once in a while.
I know I didnt pay attention to anything else except the oil pressure gauge and I hate for you to rip everything out when it could have been that.
Bill - I assume that your tach and other things were working properly when you didnt see any oil pressure correct?
I just say that because one time after Doug did some last min tuning I started a car and didnt see any oil pressure. I shut it right down and said Doug there is no pressure. He said did you see if the other gauges worked and I said no so I started again and still nothing. He said disconnect the battery and reset everything. I did that and then everything worked. Doug mentioned that it happens once in a while.
I know I didnt pay attention to anything else except the oil pressure gauge and I hate for you to rip everything out when it could have been that.
Thread Starter
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Bob
Thats the FIRST thing that I thought of and UNFORTUNATELY is not that or anything else simple that I can see. The good news is. I have the front of the engine torn down already and getting ready to un-bolt the damper. Oh what fun. I cant wait. The good thing is,,,all the components are quality and clean and that makes it somewhat bearable.
Sometime tomorrow I should have the cover off and the pump out. I will report the findings as sooooon as I get chance.
Thanks for all the support.
BC
Thats the FIRST thing that I thought of and UNFORTUNATELY is not that or anything else simple that I can see. The good news is. I have the front of the engine torn down already and getting ready to un-bolt the damper. Oh what fun. I cant wait. The good thing is,,,all the components are quality and clean and that makes it somewhat bearable.
Sometime tomorrow I should have the cover off and the pump out. I will report the findings as sooooon as I get chance.
Thanks for all the support.
BC
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 24,652
Likes: 298
From: NJ
St. Jude Donor '05-'08
Bob
Thats the FIRST thing that I thought of and UNFORTUNATELY is not that or anything else simple that I can see. The good news is. I have the front of the engine torn down already and getting ready to un-bolt the damper. Oh what fun. I cant wait. The good thing is,,,all the components are quality and clean and that makes it somewhat bearable.
Sometime tomorrow I should have the cover off and the pump out. I will report the findings as sooooon as I get chance.
Thanks for all the support.
BC
Thats the FIRST thing that I thought of and UNFORTUNATELY is not that or anything else simple that I can see. The good news is. I have the front of the engine torn down already and getting ready to un-bolt the damper. Oh what fun. I cant wait. The good thing is,,,all the components are quality and clean and that makes it somewhat bearable.
Sometime tomorrow I should have the cover off and the pump out. I will report the findings as sooooon as I get chance.
Thanks for all the support.
BC
BTW - so whats easier Vettes or Subs
