Ideal Cam for AFR heads
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 4,285
Likes: 83
From: S.E. WI.
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10
I read about it in one of his threads. I forget if it was a missed shift or something else. No damage just the tell tale signs of contact.
May have had something to do with his PTVC recommendations. When I was buying parts for my engine, we talked about a 228/232 and he felt the 224/228 was at his comfort level on PTVC.
May have had something to do with his PTVC recommendations. When I was buying parts for my engine, we talked about a 228/232 and he felt the 224/228 was at his comfort level on PTVC.
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 4,285
Likes: 83
From: S.E. WI.
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10
TQ was only 402. I talked to Tony Mamo after the pull and felt the TQ was low. PE table tapered down from 13.6 to 13.1. I should have just flatlined PE @ 12.9. It would have picked up TQ and probably HP as well.
My guess is more was available but 2 dyno pulls were $115.00 and I just wanted a baseline.
Former Vendor
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,518
Likes: 7
From: Valencia CA
You can squeeze one of my "recipe set-ups" with a little more cam (a 228/230 is about the biggest I like to go) and if you have all the right components, the right tune, and a healthy shortblock, it will produce around 475 RWHP on a typical average reading dyno (with 425-430 RWTQ). Maybe a few more and maybe a few less but I have helped a few others who had the coin to copy my package to the letter and all of them were in the mid high 400's and some even higher that got more aggressive with camshaft and were willing to flycut pistons to accommodate it.
An N/A combo is very responsive and doesn't add additional weight and complexity to the package. It feels a lot better than a blower car at part throttle (compared to off boost with a blown car) because a blown car has less compression and a power robbing blower to turn. Till you start building boost a blown car feels lazier for lack of a better word. If you value part throttle performance and like a responsive, snappy combination you might consider sticking to an efficient well thought out N/A build. No disrespect to the blown guys, when you lay the hammer down and start building boost the blower cars freight train...especially upstairs in the taller gears which have more time to load the blower but alas this hobby is filled with compromises and they certainly have their share. If your on the fence try to hop a ride in some other Corvettes with both style combinations. Its a lot of money to not be thrilled when the smoke clears.
My 346 went low elevens at 124 MPH with a crappy sixty foot time and only so-so air quality (about 1500 feet above sea level). If you live in a cooler part of the country closer to sea level that trap speed would be in the vicinity of 128 PMH....more than a new Z06 427 by 2-3 MPH. My combo still knocked down 25-30 on the freeway and 18-20 around town in average driving....fuel economy is another perk of the efficient N/A set-up by the way....a blower car will be 3-4 points lower due to the same reasons I mentioned earlier (less compression and more parasitic losses). At $5 a gallon you have to at least consider that in your decision making process.
Good luck....feel free to call me directly if you have any questions or would like more help!
Regards,
Tony
An N/A combo is very responsive and doesn't add additional weight and complexity to the package. It feels a lot better than a blower car at part throttle (compared to off boost with a blown car) because a blown car has less compression and a power robbing blower to turn. Till you start building boost a blown car feels lazier for lack of a better word. If you value part throttle performance and like a responsive, snappy combination you might consider sticking to an efficient well thought out N/A build. No disrespect to the blown guys, when you lay the hammer down and start building boost the blower cars freight train...especially upstairs in the taller gears which have more time to load the blower but alas this hobby is filled with compromises and they certainly have their share. If your on the fence try to hop a ride in some other Corvettes with both style combinations. Its a lot of money to not be thrilled when the smoke clears.
My 346 went low elevens at 124 MPH with a crappy sixty foot time and only so-so air quality (about 1500 feet above sea level). If you live in a cooler part of the country closer to sea level that trap speed would be in the vicinity of 128 PMH....more than a new Z06 427 by 2-3 MPH. My combo still knocked down 25-30 on the freeway and 18-20 around town in average driving....fuel economy is another perk of the efficient N/A set-up by the way....a blower car will be 3-4 points lower due to the same reasons I mentioned earlier (less compression and more parasitic losses). At $5 a gallon you have to at least consider that in your decision making process.
Good luck....feel free to call me directly if you have any questions or would like more help!
Regards,
Tony
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
I looked hard at a supercharger. I liked the Maggie the best but that required a new hood and added a lot of weight to the nose of the car and I have been very selective in my parts selection to eliminate weight (within reason). Some of the other systems seem to cut up the front of the car from what I observed. The turbo's looked good but were complicated. I decided to stay N/A and try to get something that will respond quick on the street because once you go over the speed limit we seem to have an endless supply of LEO's around here, especially in the summer with all the tourists. So most of the fun has to be banging a couple of gears.
Racer
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 498
Likes: 1
From: Fontana CA
I have the 224/228 114LSA +2 with AR headers with cats, FAST 92 and LS2 TB, and CNC'd LS6 heads. I put down 421RWHP and 396 RWTQ. These number are with my Ruff 20" wheels which are lead weights. So I know my numbers will be higher with stock wheels. The car is a rocket at 4K + RPM's. thinking of installing 3:90's or 4:10's to help keep me in the upper RPM"s. You can feel the difference between idle till 4K RPM"s and 5K RPM's to 6500 RPM's, its like having a shot of NO2 at 4K RPM's.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,048
Likes: 300
From: FL
You can squeeze one of my "recipe set-ups" with a little more cam (a 228/230 is about the biggest I like to go) and if you have all the right components, the right tune, and a healthy shortblock, it will produce around 475 RWHP on a typical average reading dyno (with 425-430 RWTQ). Maybe a few more and maybe a few less but I have helped a few others who had the coin to copy my package to the letter and all of them were in the mid high 400's and some even higher that got more aggressive with camshaft and were willing to flycut pistons to accommodate it.
An N/A combo is very responsive and doesn't add additional weight and complexity to the package. It feels a lot better than a blower car at part throttle (compared to off boost with a blown car) because a blown car has less compression and a power robbing blower to turn. Till you start building boost a blown car feels lazier for lack of a better word. If you value part throttle performance and like a responsive, snappy combination you might consider sticking to an efficient well thought out N/A build. No disrespect to the blown guys, when you lay the hammer down and start building boost the blower cars freight train...especially upstairs in the taller gears which have more time to load the blower but alas this hobby is filled with compromises and they certainly have their share. If your on the fence try to hop a ride in some other Corvettes with both style combinations. Its a lot of money to not be thrilled when the smoke clears.
My 346 went low elevens at 124 MPH with a crappy sixty foot time and only so-so air quality (about 1500 feet above sea level). If you live in a cooler part of the country closer to sea level that trap speed would be in the vicinity of 128 PMH....more than a new Z06 427 by 2-3 MPH. My combo still knocked down 25-30 on the freeway and 18-20 around town in average driving....fuel economy is another perk of the efficient N/A set-up by the way....a blower car will be 3-4 points lower due to the same reasons I mentioned earlier (less compression and more parasitic losses). At $5 a gallon you have to at least consider that in your decision making process.
Good luck....feel free to call me directly if you have any questions or would like more help!
Regards,
Tony
An N/A combo is very responsive and doesn't add additional weight and complexity to the package. It feels a lot better than a blower car at part throttle (compared to off boost with a blown car) because a blown car has less compression and a power robbing blower to turn. Till you start building boost a blown car feels lazier for lack of a better word. If you value part throttle performance and like a responsive, snappy combination you might consider sticking to an efficient well thought out N/A build. No disrespect to the blown guys, when you lay the hammer down and start building boost the blower cars freight train...especially upstairs in the taller gears which have more time to load the blower but alas this hobby is filled with compromises and they certainly have their share. If your on the fence try to hop a ride in some other Corvettes with both style combinations. Its a lot of money to not be thrilled when the smoke clears.
My 346 went low elevens at 124 MPH with a crappy sixty foot time and only so-so air quality (about 1500 feet above sea level). If you live in a cooler part of the country closer to sea level that trap speed would be in the vicinity of 128 PMH....more than a new Z06 427 by 2-3 MPH. My combo still knocked down 25-30 on the freeway and 18-20 around town in average driving....fuel economy is another perk of the efficient N/A set-up by the way....a blower car will be 3-4 points lower due to the same reasons I mentioned earlier (less compression and more parasitic losses). At $5 a gallon you have to at least consider that in your decision making process.
Good luck....feel free to call me directly if you have any questions or would like more help!
Regards,
Tony
So just to sum up the recipe a little bit....
- Stick with a cam profile of 224/228 on a 114, don't go larger than a 228/230 on a 114. Do you think a 112 LSA will help the midrange power any or just cause idle problems? My car is an Z06 so I can handle a little more lump in the idle.
- Are the valve springs that come with the heads sufficient with the above listed cams or is an upgrade recommended?
- Use the AFR 205 heads. Millled to ??? Cosmetic Gasket?
- Ported FAST intake, may add 15-20hp over the LS6 intake.
- ASP 25% underdrive pully
- Ported Oil Pump
- LS2 Timing Chain
- Hardened Pushrods - what size? stock 7.400
- Upgraded rockers or stock???
Thanks for your help. I will definitely give you a call before I order anything.
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 4,285
Likes: 83
From: S.E. WI.
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10
You can squeeze one of my "recipe set-ups" with a little more cam (a 228/230 is about the biggest I like to go) and if you have all the right components, the right tune, and a healthy shortblock, it will produce around 475 RWHP on a typical average reading dyno (with 425-430 RWTQ). Maybe a few more and maybe a few less but I have helped a few others who had the coin to copy my package to the letter and all of them were in the mid high 400's and some even higher that got more aggressive with camshaft and were willing to flycut pistons to accommodate it.
An N/A combo is very responsive and doesn't add additional weight and complexity to the package. It feels a lot better than a blower car at part throttle (compared to off boost with a blown car) because a blown car has less compression and a power robbing blower to turn. Till you start building boost a blown car feels lazier for lack of a better word. If you value part throttle performance and like a responsive, snappy combination you might consider sticking to an efficient well thought out N/A build. No disrespect to the blown guys, when you lay the hammer down and start building boost the blower cars freight train...especially upstairs in the taller gears which have more time to load the blower but alas this hobby is filled with compromises and they certainly have their share. If your on the fence try to hop a ride in some other Corvettes with both style combinations. Its a lot of money to not be thrilled when the smoke clears.
My 346 went low elevens at 124 MPH with a crappy sixty foot time and only so-so air quality (about 1500 feet above sea level). If you live in a cooler part of the country closer to sea level that trap speed would be in the vicinity of 128 PMH....more than a new Z06 427 by 2-3 MPH. My combo still knocked down 25-30 on the freeway and 18-20 around town in average driving....fuel economy is another perk of the efficient N/A set-up by the way....a blower car will be 3-4 points lower due to the same reasons I mentioned earlier (less compression and more parasitic losses). At $5 a gallon you have to at least consider that in your decision making process.
Good luck....feel free to call me directly if you have any questions or would like more help!
Regards,
Tony
An N/A combo is very responsive and doesn't add additional weight and complexity to the package. It feels a lot better than a blower car at part throttle (compared to off boost with a blown car) because a blown car has less compression and a power robbing blower to turn. Till you start building boost a blown car feels lazier for lack of a better word. If you value part throttle performance and like a responsive, snappy combination you might consider sticking to an efficient well thought out N/A build. No disrespect to the blown guys, when you lay the hammer down and start building boost the blower cars freight train...especially upstairs in the taller gears which have more time to load the blower but alas this hobby is filled with compromises and they certainly have their share. If your on the fence try to hop a ride in some other Corvettes with both style combinations. Its a lot of money to not be thrilled when the smoke clears.
My 346 went low elevens at 124 MPH with a crappy sixty foot time and only so-so air quality (about 1500 feet above sea level). If you live in a cooler part of the country closer to sea level that trap speed would be in the vicinity of 128 PMH....more than a new Z06 427 by 2-3 MPH. My combo still knocked down 25-30 on the freeway and 18-20 around town in average driving....fuel economy is another perk of the efficient N/A set-up by the way....a blower car will be 3-4 points lower due to the same reasons I mentioned earlier (less compression and more parasitic losses). At $5 a gallon you have to at least consider that in your decision making process.
Good luck....feel free to call me directly if you have any questions or would like more help!
Regards,
Tony
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Former Vendor
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,518
Likes: 7
From: Valencia CA
Thanks Tony. I appreciate the insight. I think I am going to go with my intial plan and stay N/A.
So just to sum up the recipe a little bit....
- Stick with a cam profile of 224/228 on a 114, don't go larger than a 228/230 on a 114. Do you think a 112 LSA will help the midrange power any or just cause idle problems? My car is an Z06 so I can handle a little more lump in the idle.
- Are the valve springs that come with the heads sufficient with the above listed cams or is an upgrade recommended?
- Use the AFR 205 heads. Millled to ??? Cosmetic Gasket?
- Ported FAST intake, may add 15-20hp over the LS6 intake.
- ASP 25% underdrive pully
- Ported Oil Pump
- LS2 Timing Chain
- Hardened Pushrods - what size? stock 7.400
- Upgraded rockers or stock???
Thanks for your help. I will definitely give you a call before I order anything.
So just to sum up the recipe a little bit....
- Stick with a cam profile of 224/228 on a 114, don't go larger than a 228/230 on a 114. Do you think a 112 LSA will help the midrange power any or just cause idle problems? My car is an Z06 so I can handle a little more lump in the idle.
- Are the valve springs that come with the heads sufficient with the above listed cams or is an upgrade recommended?
- Use the AFR 205 heads. Millled to ??? Cosmetic Gasket?
- Ported FAST intake, may add 15-20hp over the LS6 intake.
- ASP 25% underdrive pully
- Ported Oil Pump
- LS2 Timing Chain
- Hardened Pushrods - what size? stock 7.400
- Upgraded rockers or stock???
Thanks for your help. I will definitely give you a call before I order anything.
Stay on a 114....improves low speed drivability and helps the smaller cam (compared to stuff in the mid 230's and higher) make more power, but best of all hang on longer past peak. Based on what I've seen you post my gut is the 228/230 is the right fit for you and will get you some of the lope you desire and more peak power.
AFR 205's milled to 62 cc's with our 8019 spring upgrade and a .040 Cometic gasket (11.35 CR)
One of my ported FAST/ported LS2 set-ups worth 20-25 RWHP....yes its expensive at close to 2K with the harness adapter you will need but the gains are substantial and the throttle response is awesome. It feels like you picked up twice that much power.
25% UD pulley is affirmative
Ported oil pump is inexpensive insurance (I can help you there as well)
LS2 chain is OK or we sell a complete timing set that includes a Torrington rear bearing on the cam gear thrust side (about $95 for the kit)....that's what I would recommend.
Yella Terra ultralite rockers and 7.500 Comp pushrods for 5 more ponies and triple the life expectancy of your valve guides (the best reason to purchase the kit).
Add a quality long tube header (call me on that dicey topic), shake well, add the right tune and presto 460+ RWHP/420+ RWTQ. Loads of throttle response and a blast to drive. The slightly bigger cam kills about 3 MPG though (more if driven hard) so if that's an issue you might go with the smaller cam which will make roughly 10 RWHP less.
An above average car set-up as I just described would make even more power (the right clutch, reasonably light rims and tires, etc.)....a below average car (the wrong clutch, ie heavy, and the wrong rims and tires) will make less. The numbers I'm quoting are average and very attainable.
Making big number on the chassis dyno is alot more involved as besides a very good tune which requires alot of time and commitment, you must also consider the state of the entire car and how efficient and lightweight the driveline components are.....that's why I like to hedge quoting chassis numbers.
If you need more info than this just take the time to call me...I would enjoy helping you with your project and quite honestly it will save both of us some time.
Tony
Last edited by Tony Mamo @ AFR; Jul 1, 2008 at 09:27 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,121
Likes: 3
From: Shreveport/Bossier Louisiana
St. Jude Donor '08
If I have any advise, it would be to listen to Tony. He helped me substatiially with my build and I am running his worked over 205's and ported FAST. I am still in the breakin process of my new motor but I know it will be a damn monster when its all said and done.
Thanks again Tony
Thanks again Tony
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,048
Likes: 300
From: FL
Stay on a 114....improves low speed drivability and helps the smaller cam (compared to stuff in the mid 230's and higher) make more power, but best of all hang on longer past peak. Based on what I've seen you post my gut is the 228/230 is the right fit for you and will get you some of the lope you desire and more peak power.
AFR 205's milled to 62 cc's with our 8019 spring upgrade and a .040 Cometic gasket (11.35 CR)
One of my ported FAST/ported LS2 set-ups worth 20-25 RWHP....yes its expensive at close to 2K with the harness adapter you will need but the gains are substantial and the throttle response is awesome. It feels like you picked up twice that much power.
25% UD pulley is affirmative
Ported oil pump is inexpensive insurance (I can help you there as well)
LS2 chain is OK or we sell a complete timing set that includes a Torrington rear bearing on the cam gear thrust side (about $95 for the kit)....that's what I would recommend.
Yella Terra ultralite rockers and 7.500 Comp pushrods for 5 more ponies and triple the life expectancy of your valve guides (the best reason to purchase the kit).
Add a quality long tube header (call me on that dicey topic), shake well, add the right tune and presto 460+ RWHP/420+ RWTQ. Loads of throttle response and a blast to drive. The slightly bigger cam kills about 3 MPG though (more if driven hard) so if that's an issue you might go with the smaller cam which will make roughly 10 RWHP less.
An above average car set-up as I just described would make even more power (the right clutch, reasonably light rims and tires, etc.)....a below average car (the wrong clutch, ie heavy, and the wrong rims and tires) will make less. The numbers I'm quoting are average and very attainable.
Making big number on the chassis dyno is alot more involved as besides a very good tune which requires alot of time and commitment, you must also consider the state of the entire car and how efficient and lightweight the driveline components are.....that's why I like to hedge quoting chassis numbers.
If you need more info than this just take the time to call me...I would enjoy helping you with your project and quite honestly it will save both of us some time.
Tony
AFR 205's milled to 62 cc's with our 8019 spring upgrade and a .040 Cometic gasket (11.35 CR)
One of my ported FAST/ported LS2 set-ups worth 20-25 RWHP....yes its expensive at close to 2K with the harness adapter you will need but the gains are substantial and the throttle response is awesome. It feels like you picked up twice that much power.
25% UD pulley is affirmative
Ported oil pump is inexpensive insurance (I can help you there as well)
LS2 chain is OK or we sell a complete timing set that includes a Torrington rear bearing on the cam gear thrust side (about $95 for the kit)....that's what I would recommend.
Yella Terra ultralite rockers and 7.500 Comp pushrods for 5 more ponies and triple the life expectancy of your valve guides (the best reason to purchase the kit).
Add a quality long tube header (call me on that dicey topic), shake well, add the right tune and presto 460+ RWHP/420+ RWTQ. Loads of throttle response and a blast to drive. The slightly bigger cam kills about 3 MPG though (more if driven hard) so if that's an issue you might go with the smaller cam which will make roughly 10 RWHP less.
An above average car set-up as I just described would make even more power (the right clutch, reasonably light rims and tires, etc.)....a below average car (the wrong clutch, ie heavy, and the wrong rims and tires) will make less. The numbers I'm quoting are average and very attainable.
Making big number on the chassis dyno is alot more involved as besides a very good tune which requires alot of time and commitment, you must also consider the state of the entire car and how efficient and lightweight the driveline components are.....that's why I like to hedge quoting chassis numbers.
If you need more info than this just take the time to call me...I would enjoy helping you with your project and quite honestly it will save both of us some time.
Tony
Thanks a bunch Tony. I really appreciate it.
One last thing for now...the 228/230 cam, no clearance issues with the heads, correct?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,722
Likes: 64
From: DFW Texas
CI 7-8 Veteran
CI 8 Car Show Winner
St. Jude Donor '07
I talked with Lou and anthony @ LGM for quite some time when i decided to do my H/C. I have all the upgraded parts to the package (springs, ud pully, etc.) including whats in my sig. CAM is very similar to tony recipe aswell as his awesome AFR heads and cant be more happier...drives great, awesome power and can jump in and cruise x-country at any given time with out worries
Last edited by illmac77; Jul 2, 2008 at 12:18 AM.
Former Vendor
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,518
Likes: 7
From: Valencia CA
Call me when you have some free time...
Regards,
Tony
Pro
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 509
Likes: 0
I went with the G5X1 on a 114 (228/232) and LOVE IT!!! It has just a touch of cam rumble, shakes the car just a bit at the stoplight, but runs so smooth at all speeds. I have a Honker CAI, Dynatech LT's, cats, x-pipe, 25% UD pulley, and a ported TB, stock LS6 heads (with Comp 921's) for now. Most important add on??? - the Tune!!!!
A set of Tony's 205's in August will round out the package>>>
A set of Tony's 205's in August will round out the package>>>
