This was recommended to me...any thoughts?

 

A waste of time, unless you plan on driving your vette at 35,000 feet.

 

The nitrogen doesn't expand/contract as much as air, therefore it maintains even pressure. fwiw.

 

This subject has been to death around here.

Bottom line ..... Nitrogen in tires only does one thing .... it makes your car go faster because your wallet is lighter.

Air is almost 80 percent Nitrogen ..... and there is no measurable difference in the expansion rates of Nitrogen or Oxygen (which is about the remaining 20 percent) at the pressures and temperatures our tires live at.

If a tire shop puts it in your tires for FREE ... it does no harm ... paying for it is a TOTAL WASTE of money.

 

Go for the HELIUM instead. It will make your car much lighter!

 

Really? At what temperature and pressure exactly? What you are saying is true, but it applies at higher pressures..typically 75psi and up. That's why for low pressures ( as in our tires ), ideal gas law works well for nitrogen and air. Part of the reason why Nitrogen is used in commercial aircraft tires , is aircraft tires are inflated in excess of 200 psi. More stable, not subject to moisture like air, etc. Very important considering how rapidly temperatures/pressures can increase in a tire on landing and braking that is inflated to 200 psi cold !

 

Just FYI, but PV=ZnRT doesn't say anything about different elements reating differently under different pressures. Granted the 'Z' is a correction factor for non-ideality, but Nitrogen and Oxygen will react to temp and pressure the exact same down to the boiling point. And the 'n' should be about equal as well, as the size of the molecules are roughly equivalent.

and to the OP, as stated above, if its free its not going to hurt anything and you can add regular ole' air if you need to down the road, but paying for it is a complete waste of money and will not benefit you at all. The only minute, possible, upside to nitrogen is that if you have your tires long enough, the O2 in the air might difuse through the ribber and contact the steel belting and corrode it a little, but I for one don't plan on keeping my tires for 10-15 years (est.).

 

Agreed, I was trying to keep it simple, not everyone on the forum is a Chem E.

 

ya, I should have stated it as "is thought to". Chem classes are limited in M.E.
I just didn't feel like going into the long drawn out bla bla bla.. again.

 

Just thought i would try and clarify for everyone. Wasn't trying to be a d!ck or anything. I tend to overcomplicate things sometimes.

 

Not at all, your point is well taken. I suppose at the end of the day, someone will always by the snake oil, whether it's nitrogen in tires, an ab roller, diet pills, or those pads you put on your feet to leach out toxins........

 

Yeah, I know....I actually was going to reference one of my books on thermodynamics, and thought.....what's the point

 

Those pads really work. I have a friend whose brothers wife's sister tried one and siad she felt marginally better.

 

N2 is only needed for racing, Nascar, road racing. No need in street tires as the tire pressures dont raise up that much.

Besides to get a benefit plan on filling and emptying your tire 3 -4 times to get a good N2 fill.

 

I have notice changes in my tire pressure with changes in temp at sea level. Especially if there is a sudden drop overnight. I thought nitrogen was less suseptible to temperature variations, and was considering putting a tank in my garage that is relatively cheap.

 

Sounds like a great idea. Let us know how it works out for you

 

One of the bigger benefits is the removal of h2o from your compressed air. Have you ever drained your compressor? Another benefit is more constant tire pressure. Nitrogen is a bigger molecule and therefore less likely to seep out of your tire like oxygen and water vapor in your tires, therefore there is less seepage out of your tire which translates into better mileage and tire life, unless you check your tire pressure on a regular basis. You guys probably all check your tire pressure regularly but I do not and most people do not. TPMS reduces the chance of your tire pressure going low without you knowing. My z06 does not have tpms. TPMS sensors can also be destroyed by h2o in your tires. The price of Nitrogen is not bad compared to the price of tpms sensors. I own a couple of tire stores and see these things many times a week. It is definately a profit center for me but I would not provide it for my customers if I felt they got no benefit from it. I have also had way more customers than I ever expected say there car rode and handled better. I am still not sure where that is coming from, maybe a placebo effect. The following link is a calculator of savings from nitrogen. It is probably a little optimistic but nitrogen has a good cost/value ratio. http://www.getnitrogen.org/

 

We use an evac pump and just do it once, but not too many guys have that available unless they are serious about racing.
The reason we use N2 is that it is dryer and even then we run it though a dryer before it goes into the tire.
We tune our stock car a 1/2 psi at a time so it really matters to us.

For street use , it's a waste of time.

 

Jeez ..... here we go again .....

Point me to ONE scientific source that A) can quote the size of an oxygen molecule .... B) can quote the size of a Nitrogen molecule .... claims that one is bigger than the other are just freakin'

Do you have any clue how small a molecule is ..... an atom is .... ?????

You're an idiot if you buy this "fairytale" that one is bigger than the other ..... what do you use to measure the size of a molecule ... a Stanley tape measure ??????

If there was ANY significant difference in the size/weight of the molecules then (given the claim Nitrogen is larger) why doesn't all the oxygen in the atmosphere rise to the top (like ozone does), leaving us breathing a 99 percent nitrogen mixture ??????

TPMS sensors can be destroyed by water in the tire ????????

Show me ONE documented case of a TPMS sensor failing due to moisture in the gas around it ...... the battery in the sensor will die 50 years before the moisture in the gas around it even begins to affect it.

Also, depending on the "grade" of nitrogen you are purchasing the moisture content can be as high, or higher, than ambient air. I don't buy nitrogen, but I use Oxygen for SCUBA diving ..... here's an example of "grades" ....

Aviator Breathing Oxygen (ABO) - Sold for pilots and crew to breath ..... it is VERY low in moisture because at high altitude temperatures are very low and you don't want the breathing system freezing up and cutting off the oxygen to the pilot/crew

Medical Oxygen - same oxygen as ABO BUT it is very high in moisture content because you don't want to dehydrate a comatose patient who is being ventilated with the gas.

The only part of your statement I can't argue with is "It is definately a profit center for me" .... no kidding ......

If you put it in my tires for free ... fine .... I'm not stupid enough to spend the money on a gas that is basically air (again ... about 80 percent of air is nitrogen).

 

It has been a while since I took Chemistry so I am not sure if the periodic table is still a scientific source of information? According to the periodic table the Atomic Radius of N is 65 pm and the Atomic Radius of O is 60 pm. Almost 10% more.

PM stands for picometer equal to one trillionth (1/1,000,000,000,000) of a meter. It is small for sure but almost 10% is almost 10%.


I should have thought of Stanley to get my measurements but I am a little to slow for that.

This is not a case but it is TPMS info from the manufacturers. Next time I pull one off with this type of damage I will mail it to you if you would like.

# Filling tires - When filling any tires the air supply should be clean and dry. This is exceptionally critical for TPMS tires as any sediment or moisture can affect the precision workings of the sensor and transmitting devices. Take care to blow off the area around the valve stem to rid the area of dirt. If a valve stem does not have a cap, gently blow air into the valve to remove any dirt or dust.
# Aerosol inflators with sealant - Using a can of aerosol tire inflator with sealant is not an option for TPMS. The gummy sealant will clog up the valve and pressure sensing port of the wheel sensor. The warning light will illuminate and you'll end up replacing the sensor.

Wrong, Nitrogen compressors filter water out. There is no special grade of Nitrogen for you car, just air that has Oxygen and other contaminates filtered out so you are left with ~98% Nitrogen.

I am in business to make money.

Air is not a bad thing but Nitrogen is better. Hopefully when you get your air the compressor tank has been drained regularly. I have automatic moisture drains on my compressors and the amount of water the nitrogen compressor takes out after that is surprising.