Wow,

I’m sorry you feel I am badgering Josh, truly not my intention. If he feels that way all he need do is tell me to be gone and I would be. As far as if I would purchase their product, yes, I might, however, I have a fault that I can’t just point at something and say, yep, that’s what I’m going to buy. I’ve never been able to do that with anything. Before making a purchase of something (it drives my wife nuts at times) I have to fully understand what it is I am buying and what I can expect for the money I’m spending.

As far as your mention being confused due to my comment about the trans/diff supports on the C6, that was because Josh was making a point about they used its arrangement as part of the design of their new mount. I didn’t realize I shouldn’t mention C6 designs here, sorry.

Eric D

 

Yeah the Pfadt guys are considerate, it's a shame some of the other comments in the thread are not of the same caliber.



Well since you an automotive engineer you should understand how and why it works. If not I guess we are all in trouble buying cars from Detroit

Obviously, this brace is for the driving enthusist not your everyday stock street vette.

 

Are you talking about comments like this?
From what you've posted in this thread, and what he's posted, there would be a lot more value in learning from him than from putting him down.

 

What value have we received ? I don't see any contribution by him (Eric) about why the factory design is better than the Pfadt design mount.

If Eric has something relevant to contribute, than post it up.

It's guys like you that drive up the cost of aftermarket parts and support for the corvette market as you want all kinds of scientific test performed to determine some specific percentage of improvement over the stock mount.

Did you ask the same when you bought tires, brakes, exhaust and other aftermarket parts ??

 

Often, the first step in receiving value is recognizing it.

I haven't seen any claims that the factory design is better. Just questions about how the Pfadt is an improvement.
He already contributed a lot in posts 15 and 17.

I don't know if that's directed toward Eric or me. If it's me, sure, I want validation that equipment I buy provides some significant advantage. I'd like it to do more than extend the length of "mods" in my profile.

The last two times I bought tires, for instance, the first was based on back-to-back testing in automotive magazines. The second was based on hundreds of forum posts on experiences with different brands of drag radials.
I fail to see how either has driven up the cost of parts.

Since the differential brace hasn't been available long, neither of these avenues is available.

There's nothing wrong with asking questions. Otherwise, we'd all have Turbonators.

 

Don't know what you do for a living, but if I have to spend money doing all sorts of test to prove that my product meets your specifications (whatever they are) it's going to raise the cost per unit.

I happen to be a CPA (Bean Counter) by trade. Look at the military, all of the extra cost (taxes) you pay because each product including a coffee pot has to meet some mil spec standard.

The corvette drive train is mounted like a "T". The front motor mounts are responsible for the rotation stability and the rear mount is for the vertical stability.

If you add a wider rear mount to the existing "T" formation in the rear you are going to reduce the whiplash movement of the engine and torque tube assembly.

Newtons (3rd rule) - states that for every action (force) in nature there is an equal and opposite reaction. In other words, if object A exerts a force on object B, then object B also exerts an equal force on object A.

The Pfadt brace just controls the amount of movement due to its limited travel, whereas the stock unit has a much larger rotation movement.

This is visable to the naked eye as shown in the illustrations in this thread.

I happen to have purchase one of these Pfadt units the other day, however it will a long time before I actually get it installed, to provide you with my personal feedback.

 

Good grief!
The military requires mil spec. Nobody here has required anything, just asked about what's available.

Where testing isn't required, it's still often a good marketing strategy.
An accountant might understand that effective marketing can increase sales volume, which spreads production and development costs over a greater number of units, therefor keeping the price down.

Eric hasn't told you how to make your purchase decisions. Why are you so invested in the way he makes his?

 

Yeah, my wife is a marketing manager for a large fortune 500 company, however the corvette (C5) after market performance parts is a very small business segment. How many real hardcore modded C5's exist ??

Maybe you need to brush up on your marketing segmentation analysis of the market place for C5 performance parts.

At most there is probably only a 4,000 modded corvettes that may or could use this product. Look around on the forum it's always the same guys modding and re-modding their vettes.

If there is such a big market why have so many corvette tuner shops gone out of business ?

I really don't care about Eric's purchasing decisions but it's obvious from his avatar and signature that he drives a bone stock corvette and has added no high performance mods to it so why and the hell is going to buy a performance rear tranny mount or any other performance product for that matter.

 

And there are probably fewer than 4000 supercharged C5 and C6 Corvettes, but East Coast Supercharging seems to have done well by providing testing data, in the form of records and time slips.

A&A (supercharging) seems to have done well by provoking a plethora of unsolicited customer testimonials (a sort of testing data) about excellent product, and customer service and support.

You're right though, I'm not sure that marketing in a Fortune 500 company bears much of a relationship to small business marketing.

Oh, my wife is a department manager for an OEM and aftermarket automotive supplier.

But hey, I wouldn't have kept at it if you weren't fun to dice with.

 

You can't include C6's in the sample population because the rear mount only works on C5's.


Yes, they offer up time slips and various dyno charts that differ widely, not much of a comparision to a tranny mount that can only be used in one configuration.


It's all the same principal ideas, just on a bigger scale and budget.



Not sure why you mentioned what your wife does at it's not pertain to the discussion at hand. We were talking about marketing and thus I have listened to more marketing bull crap that my wife disseminates about.

If you''re trying to one up because your wife is a manager at a company that's probably going to go belly up soon due to the crisis in the auto market, I'm not impressed.

I deal with hedge funds and large financial institutions all of the time, so seeing large multi-million deals is not a big thing to me.



Heck, please reply back as I want to get the most out of my unlimited Verizon Cellular Broadband package.

 

If we exclude C6s, that's OK, because the number of supercharged C5s is probably more like 400, making my small marketing scenario even more compelling.

A tranny mount stabilizes or supports a tranny (one would assume), whatever the configuration . A blower or turbo compresses air, whatever the configuration. One of the two has well documented results on the C5.

Not sure about that. I own a small business, and my wife works for a large international business. I think she and I understand the differences.

I don't know what it has to do with anything either. Only mentioned it because you brought it up first.
Gosh, I don't know. The American manufacturing economy isn't doing too well! Might end up giving her a job myself!
Yeah, but I bet you don't get periodic 40 thousand dollar checks made out to your name like I do. (not that any of that means anything)

 

At the risk of having my input mistaken as bashing or raising the cost of after market hardware pricing I'll respond to some of the remarks in the thread. As I stated in an earlier post, if someone doesn't want me to comment anymore on the subject of this thread let me know and I'll quit. A number of the remarks like “mil specs” or “marketing” I'm not going to touch as they contribute nothing to this thread, something I've also been accused of, though I'm not sure why.

When talking about the C5 powetrain mounting which I believe is important to this thead, the description of the mounts and function matters, so I'll comment on the above statement. The purpose of the engine mounts is simple in definition but the requirement they have to meet are extensive. The engine mounts have two primary functions support the engine and isolate it from the chassis. This isolation is critical not only for noise and vibration but also to avoid interaction of engine vibration with other chassis components. They also have to contribute damping to quickly diminish the vibration. Pitch and roll of the powertrain is constrained by these mounts. The mounts have nothing to do with torque other then inertia torque which is a very small compared to all the other forces. This is what makes the C5 and C6 (sorry for saying C6) unique when compared to most vehicles.

Seeing that some folks, or at least one is fixed on what I drive or don't drive and what that has to do with this thread, I don't understand. Yes, I have a very stock, in fact completely stock 2000 C5. I also work on and drive Corvettes that that have more then twice the power of my stock Corvette. I also fly helicopters and planes. I've worked on engines as large as 4,360 cu inches. None of which has anything to do with this thread, but does this qualify me for your “driving enthusiast” rating???

I do not feel I am asking for much from Pfadt. I just want to understand what this very nice looking mount has to offer above looks. If you go to their website it states this new mount “will reduce the loads on your half-shafts and other driveline components”. Am I wrong for asking how? How would they know this claimed load reduction unless they made the measurements and why shouldn't they share this? They've already spent the money so I'm not really driving up the cost, am I?

Regards,

Eric D

 

You guys crack me up.

It's only $340 bucks...lol

Peace
Chip

 

Chip, I'm crackin' up too, but I might get a chance to meet Eric, and that would be a privilege.

 

If you such the big engineer, why don't you buy a mount and figure it out for yourself or get off your wandwagon and make your own.

I could care less that you fly a plane or helicopter, as it's not relevant.

You're just an old retired guy that has nothing to do but post up your idiotic request.

if you don't like the responses that you're getting from the seller, don't buy the product.

I'm sure if Pfadt gave the information you wanted on a silver platter you still wouldn't one. So why don't you go somewhere else and waste someone else's time and resources.

 

....




By the way, the cliche you probably meant to use is, "I couldn't care less".
If you could care less, it puts you a ways up on the caring scale, which is probably not what you intended to communicate.
Logic 101.

Thanks for the "friendly" PM. You're welcome to post it here if you wish.

 

Anthony,

No matter how hard you try I'll never stoop to your childish attitude like calling me an “old retired guy”. Man, that really hurts. For you to be so sensitive about the information I request from Pfadt about one of their products, are you involved with them financially?? That would explain your concern. Josh and Pfadt I'm sure are capable of answering my request and questions without your intervention. Their responses so far have been very courteous, more then I can say for yours. In fact I think your meddling has chased the Pfadt guys away.

I hope you get feeling better real soon,

Eric D

 

I'm with Eric. The engine mounts are supposed to hold the whole drivetrain from rocking side to side. The mounting arrangement is a T and the whole drivetrain is pretty solid and it will not be twisting the torque tube very much. So, I can see this helping just because it replaces the rubber mount.

How much more would this help compared to sticking good poly mounts into the car?

How much hp does the car need the be making to require this mount?

These are valid questions.

Also, I'm not seeing where this bolts to the diff. It looks to use the stock mount locations however the stock location just was not designed for that kind of loading and I would be worried I'd break the case. Under acceleration the drivetrain tries to lift the front of the car meaning the front mounts should be under tension and the rear under compression. This mount could put the rear location under tension during acceleration too. At any rate, it changes the loading the mount location sees compared to the factory design.

Peter

 

You two are not worth anymore of my time.

BTW, I have no financial interest in Pfadt or any other vendor.

Oh Eric, who is childish here ?? Better go look in the mirror. If you want respect, act your age.

 

The brace actually goes upside down between the differential and the rear cross-member. It works like a see-saw and the travel is limited by the bump stops resting on the cross-members.

Here's a better illustration for you.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...81&postcount=7

GM must have thought that it was a weak point of the C5 as they used an updated mounting postion in the C6.

BTW, you would be more interested in torque figures not horsepower.