New CLB didn't work...Now what do I do?
08-24-2008, 01:51 PM
#21
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since you have a service contract, i would have them troubleshoot the bcm and relays. once they get it straightened out, the clb will take over and keep the ghost away. sit back, have a beverage and let us know the outcome
you paid for the service contract, you might as well use it
you paid for the service contract, you might as well use it
08-24-2008, 03:19 PM
#22
Le Mans Master
So by bad bypass relay are you saying the K harness and the CLB are both bad?
I know that it does not cycle connected in any of the three configurations.
The dealer is saying that after the new BCM is installed the CLB should work. They also say the actuator may be stuck but I would not need to replace it since I have a CLB. Does this sound correct?
I know that it does not cycle connected in any of the three configurations.The dealer is saying that after the new BCM is installed the CLB should work. They also say the actuator may be stuck but I would not need to replace it since I have a CLB. Does this sound correct?
Of course, the aftermarket version, CLB, does not even have the wires to connect the actuator.
I am saying that it is possible that the Harness K relay failed, and your CLB relay is not working either.
You might try getting the dealer to plug in a good Harness K kit before they do anything else, or get the supplier of the CLB to send you a replacement.
IF you trust the dealer, you could tell them to go ahead and replace the BCM with the understanding that if that does not fix the problem, you will not have to pay for it.
08-26-2008, 07:50 PM
#23
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I have the black relay. There is only one way to plug in the CLB so I know that is correct too. I think it may be the BCM.
08-26-2008, 07:56 PM
#24
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I'll take step back. It seems you're saying with neither the Harness K nor CLB installed, meaning the connector from the BCM is connected to the Lock Actuator directly, results in no cycling of the Lock Actuator when the key is inserted and turned to ON, nor removed. This to me means that the BCM is no longer sending the correct LOCK/UNLOCK signal to the Lock Acuator (nor Harness K nor CLB).
This signal is sent from the BCM via IPC fuse 23 to a Column Lock Relay near the BCM. If the fuse is good then the next step is to verify if the Column Lock Relay is firing - either it is bad or the BCM is not sending the signal which would ultimately mean the BCM is bad.
The Column Lock Relay is the leftmost relay above the BCM in the footwell. You'll see three relays attached along the top of the cavity above the BCM, and again it the leftmost one.
- The connector to the CL Relay has 6 pins but only 4 wires. You'll see Orange and White wires on one side of the connector and another Orange wire with a Dark Green wire on the other side of the connector with the 2 middle connectors unused. The Orange Wire next to the White should always be hot +12V from fuse 23.
-The Dark Green wire should be normally open but then grounded when the BCM fires it to cycle the CL actuator. If you put an Ohm meter to across that pin and ground and verify it goes from open to short when you either turn the key to ON or remove the key that will confirm that the BCM is trying to fire the relay. If this doesn't occur then the BCM is bad.
- If the BCM does try to fire the relay, then the output of the relay should be checked. Put an Ohm meter across the White wire and the other Orange wire (next to the Dk Green). It should normally be open but when the BCM fires the relay these two wires should be shorted together (contact of the relay). If that's not happening then the relay is shot and only that needs to be replaced.
So the way I read this, either fuse 23 is blown (which you've said is not the case), the BCM is not firing the relay (bad BCM) or the BCM is firing the relay but the relay is not firing (the relay is bad). Hope this helps. If you have a service manual the schematic is on page2-54 (2000 Helm Manual in Steering Wheel and Column section).
Once the LOCK/UNLOCK signal is being sent out towards the Column Lock Actuator, then the BCM will work fine.
This signal is sent from the BCM via IPC fuse 23 to a Column Lock Relay near the BCM. If the fuse is good then the next step is to verify if the Column Lock Relay is firing - either it is bad or the BCM is not sending the signal which would ultimately mean the BCM is bad.
The Column Lock Relay is the leftmost relay above the BCM in the footwell. You'll see three relays attached along the top of the cavity above the BCM, and again it the leftmost one.
- The connector to the CL Relay has 6 pins but only 4 wires. You'll see Orange and White wires on one side of the connector and another Orange wire with a Dark Green wire on the other side of the connector with the 2 middle connectors unused. The Orange Wire next to the White should always be hot +12V from fuse 23.
-The Dark Green wire should be normally open but then grounded when the BCM fires it to cycle the CL actuator. If you put an Ohm meter to across that pin and ground and verify it goes from open to short when you either turn the key to ON or remove the key that will confirm that the BCM is trying to fire the relay. If this doesn't occur then the BCM is bad.
- If the BCM does try to fire the relay, then the output of the relay should be checked. Put an Ohm meter across the White wire and the other Orange wire (next to the Dk Green). It should normally be open but when the BCM fires the relay these two wires should be shorted together (contact of the relay). If that's not happening then the relay is shot and only that needs to be replaced.
So the way I read this, either fuse 23 is blown (which you've said is not the case), the BCM is not firing the relay (bad BCM) or the BCM is firing the relay but the relay is not firing (the relay is bad). Hope this helps. If you have a service manual the schematic is on page2-54 (2000 Helm Manual in Steering Wheel and Column section).
Once the LOCK/UNLOCK signal is being sent out towards the Column Lock Actuator, then the BCM will work fine.
I gave up and the dealer has it.
The claim the BCM is the culprit, but I am going to mention the relay to them as well. I am waiting for the new BCM to arrive. I'll post the results as soon as I know.
08-26-2008, 08:06 PM
#25
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The Harness K as installed by the recall, keeps the actuator in the circuit, so you can still hear it cycle even if the column cannot lock. However, there are forum members that have disconnected the actuator from the Harness K relay, and the system still worked fine.
Of course, the aftermarket version, CLB, does not even have the wires to connect the actuator.
I am saying that it is possible that the Harness K relay failed, and your CLB relay is not working either.
You might try getting the dealer to plug in a good Harness K kit before they do anything else, or get the supplier of the CLB to send you a replacement.
IF you trust the dealer, you could tell them to go ahead and replace the BCM with the understanding that if that does not fix the problem, you will not have to pay for it.
Of course, the aftermarket version, CLB, does not even have the wires to connect the actuator.
I am saying that it is possible that the Harness K relay failed, and your CLB relay is not working either.
You might try getting the dealer to plug in a good Harness K kit before they do anything else, or get the supplier of the CLB to send you a replacement.
IF you trust the dealer, you could tell them to go ahead and replace the BCM with the understanding that if that does not fix the problem, you will not have to pay for it.
The dealer service here is very good. They said if the BCM did not work it would not be charged to the bill. However they seem pretty sure it is the culprit. I'll just have to wait for the outcome.
I want to drive our Vette!
08-26-2008, 11:17 PM
#26
Melting Slicks
I am gunna say the BCM is probably bad. It doesn't happen very often but it does happen. Since you do have the CLB then even if the actuator is bad you do not need it. Since you have hooked it up like it was from the factory and then used the K harness and now even used the CLB I will bet the BCM took a dump. I mean it's not likely that the k harness, CLB or the stock actuator is all bad
08-27-2008, 12:41 AM
#27
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I am gunna say the BCM is probably bad. It doesn't happen very often but it does happen. Since you do have the CLB then even if the actuator is bad you do not need it. Since you have hooked it up like it was from the factory and then used the K harness and now even used the CLB I will bet the BCM took a dump. I mean it's not likely that the k harness, CLB or the stock actuator is all bad
The odds of all three things being bad are highly unlikely. If the BCM comes in tomorrow I should know if it was the issue all along. In any case, I have learned more than I wanted to know about the column lock issuess on our cars.
08-28-2008, 09:05 AM
#28
My thought is that during the installation of the CLB you disconnect the wiring under the steering column. When you do that you basically lock the column. You then connect the CLB and plug the adapter into the cigarette lighter which unlocks the column. Mine was very obvious when it released the column. The steering wheel turned a few inches as soon as I plugged the adapter into the cigarette lighter. That release is how you know the CLB works and that you installed it correctly.
So strange that this feature works well on every other car in the world.
David in AZ
08-28-2008, 09:30 AM
#29
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unlocking the actuator is accomplished by plugging in dc power to the actuator plug before the clb is plugged in. once that is done, the clb is used to send an unlock signal to the bcm when the key is turned. the actuator no longer receives power to cycle. thats the way mine works, anyhow.
if you have an extended warranty, how come you have to pay for a bcm?
i agree, you have been drug over the coals on this one. hope issue is resolved soon.
if you have an extended warranty, how come you have to pay for a bcm?
i agree, you have been drug over the coals on this one. hope issue is resolved soon.
08-29-2008, 04:31 AM
#30
Drifting
I think what bluvette79 is trying to say is the CLB will NOT solve your problem once the steering column has failed in the locked position (can't turn your wheel). The fuel cutoff is an after affect of your column lock failure and will go away once you get it resolved.
If your lock plate has been removed, OR your steering column has failed in the unlocked position OR your column lock actuator is operational and you've used the cigar lighter plug supplied with the CLB to retract (unlock) your steering column, THEN your CLB OR your K Harness should work. This of course assumes the following conditions:
1) there are no blown fuses (fuse 23) that supplies 12V to your BCM to lock/unlock your system
2) your aux relay (M6 & M12 cars) located above the BCM is working (or correctly bypassed)
3) your BCM is operational (I've yet to actually see a failed BCM...very rare and unlikely)
4) your wiring is correct and working between your BCM and your CLB. Check to make sure the black wire has a good ground, the white (or orange if stock) and purple wires are not open or shorted and the green wire should indicate +12V (locked) with CLB disconnected (there's a pullup resistor in the BCM).
The goal is to see the green wire grounded (unlocked) by your CLB or K Harness when you insert the ignition key.
John
Last edited by Cscokd; 08-29-2008 at 04:40 AM.
can't wait to hear the actual cause
08-29-2008, 07:54 PM
#32
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I too am getting the steering lock service message. Apparently my 2000 a4 has been recalled as I can turn the wheel with the key OUT.
Now I get the message and the car starts but after 2 mph it stops.
Will installinbg a CLB cure the problem ??
I too am doing alot of reading and there seems to be alot of confusion .
Thanks Mike Foreman 503 698 8473
Now I get the message and the car starts but after 2 mph it stops.
Will installinbg a CLB cure the problem ??
I too am doing alot of reading and there seems to be alot of confusion .
Thanks Mike Foreman 503 698 8473
08-29-2008, 08:47 PM
#33
Melting Slicks
I too am getting the steering lock service message. Apparently my 2000 a4 has been recalled as I can turn the wheel with the key OUT.
Now I get the message and the car starts but after 2 mph it stops.
Will installinbg a CLB cure the problem ??
I too am doing alot of reading and there seems to be alot of confusion .
Thanks Mike Foreman 503 698 8473
Now I get the message and the car starts but after 2 mph it stops.
Will installinbg a CLB cure the problem ??
I too am doing alot of reading and there seems to be alot of confusion .
Thanks Mike Foreman 503 698 8473
08-29-2008, 11:51 PM
#34
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Have you tried:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...post1558667185
"opened the passenger side foot well under the carpet and removed the BCM, then located the recall mod relay (unplug it) and added a jumper wire between the white wire (that attached to relay pin #30) and the orange wire (that attached to relay pin #87).
(Making sure to identify the orange wire that connected to pin #87 because there are two orange wires that connect to the relay. You can see the numbers on the inside of the relay after you unplug it next to each pin)"
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...post1558667185
"opened the passenger side foot well under the carpet and removed the BCM, then located the recall mod relay (unplug it) and added a jumper wire between the white wire (that attached to relay pin #30) and the orange wire (that attached to relay pin #87).
(Making sure to identify the orange wire that connected to pin #87 because there are two orange wires that connect to the relay. You can see the numbers on the inside of the relay after you unplug it next to each pin)"
08-30-2008, 02:09 PM
#36
Melting Slicks
I just started playing with EFI Live. I could not find the "fuel shutoff" value. I did find an "anti-theft" setting - but not sure what that accomplishes. You can change the anti-theft mode to "none" if you want.
08-30-2008, 04:51 PM
#37
Melting Slicks
Using EFI Live go to SYSTEM-THEFT and change G1201 to none and G0801 to no. Doing this will stop the fuel cutoff BUT! if you don't get the bypass there is a chance you will see the service column lock message, only thing is now you can drive the car like normal. One thing you need to know is that if you tune the cutoff out then you MUST have the lock plate removed because if you don't then if for some reason the steering wheel locked the car won't die and at highway speeds that would be a major crash. REMOVE THE LOCK PLATE BEFORE YOU TUNE OUT THE FUEL CUTOFF!!!
08-30-2008, 08:56 PM
#38
Racer
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unlocking the actuator is accomplished by plugging in dc power to the actuator plug before the clb is plugged in. once that is done, the clb is used to send an unlock signal to the bcm when the key is turned. the actuator no longer receives power to cycle. thats the way mine works, anyhow.
if you have an extended warranty, how come you have to pay for a bcm?
i agree, you have been drug over the coals on this one. hope issue is resolved soon.
if you have an extended warranty, how come you have to pay for a bcm?
i agree, you have been drug over the coals on this one. hope issue is resolved soon.
08-30-2008, 09:31 PM
#39
Racer
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I will know for sure if it is the BCM on Tuesday. After talking to the guys at Adaptive Performance, I tend to think that is the case. They mentioned that some BCM's have been damaged by water intrusion.
The original problem started after the car had been caught in a heavy rainstorm. It had a very small amount of water that had gotten in on the passenger side near the center console. It did not appear to be near the BCM, but it could have gotten wet. Why it would only affect the column lock is beyond me. Everything else works great.
I cleaned out all the udders. The only thing I have not cleaned is the A/C drain tube. How do you get to it? Also, is there a way to "wrap" the BCM in plastic to protect it from future water damage? Why GM would mount the major electricals down in the toeboard is a mystery to me.
The original problem started after the car had been caught in a heavy rainstorm. It had a very small amount of water that had gotten in on the passenger side near the center console. It did not appear to be near the BCM, but it could have gotten wet. Why it would only affect the column lock is beyond me. Everything else works great.
I cleaned out all the udders. The only thing I have not cleaned is the A/C drain tube. How do you get to it? Also, is there a way to "wrap" the BCM in plastic to protect it from future water damage? Why GM would mount the major electricals down in the toeboard is a mystery to me.
08-30-2008, 10:32 PM
#40
Race Director
that is correct. if recall 2 was done CLB will not help.