LS 6 Cam recommendations please!
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,161
Likes: 1
From: Chandler AZ
LS 6 Cam recommendations please!
I'm campaigning a '03 Z 06 in NASA TTS. In this class you need to stay under 8.7 to 1 power to weight ratio. I am a little below the power I could have and need no more than 20 horsepower.
Now using an internally stock LS 6 with Kook ceramic coated full length headers, B&B bullets, Random Cats, Halltech Stringer, MSD 8.5 wires, iridium plugs, Fast 90 intake, LS2 90 throttle body, and getting 376 RWHP.
I'm lucky to win the Az. Region TTS Championship this year, but will need all of it next year for Nationals.
I think a mild cam will get me there. I want something very reliable and smooth idle. High ratio rockers won't give me enough alone.
Do you guys have any recommendations on brand and specs of a cam?
Now using an internally stock LS 6 with Kook ceramic coated full length headers, B&B bullets, Random Cats, Halltech Stringer, MSD 8.5 wires, iridium plugs, Fast 90 intake, LS2 90 throttle body, and getting 376 RWHP.
I'm lucky to win the Az. Region TTS Championship this year, but will need all of it next year for Nationals.
I think a mild cam will get me there. I want something very reliable and smooth idle. High ratio rockers won't give me enough alone.
Do you guys have any recommendations on brand and specs of a cam?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,048
Likes: 300
From: FL
I just upgraded to a average 224/228 .581/.588 114 LSA profile cam. I went from 385rwhp to 432rwhp.
I think the idle is pretty smooth with a 114 LSA. New springs and hardened pushrods are recommended.
I think the idle is pretty smooth with a 114 LSA. New springs and hardened pushrods are recommended.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,161
Likes: 1
From: Chandler AZ
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,161
Likes: 1
From: Chandler AZ
Sounds about right . Who the manufacturer and name of the grind? Oh, harden pushrods already installed. If it goes above, I can always add to the rollbar for dead weight, but weight is a killer to a road race car.
Last edited by 96solo; Dec 4, 2008 at 11:47 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8,077
Likes: 4
From: Scarborough ONTARIO
Iam wondering u gained almost nothing (assume) with FAST 90 Intake/ 90 TB, those numbers u can pull easily with LT headers, and other minor small boltons with safe tune.
Any small cam would do easily another 20-30 Rwhp. 224/230 with 588/5xx 114 LS will do the trick, sells by LPE, Comp cam 444, and also conatct our AFR heads guru Tony mamo, along with V springs and nothing else keep Oem oil pump but upgrade to ATI super damper pulley 10% UD pulley and Katech T Chain. These parts along with above mentioned Cam not only will give u another easy 40+ HP but also make Engine stronger too. Also pin the crank while u do upgrade to UD pulley.
Any small cam would do easily another 20-30 Rwhp. 224/230 with 588/5xx 114 LS will do the trick, sells by LPE, Comp cam 444, and also conatct our AFR heads guru Tony mamo, along with V springs and nothing else keep Oem oil pump but upgrade to ATI super damper pulley 10% UD pulley and Katech T Chain. These parts along with above mentioned Cam not only will give u another easy 40+ HP but also make Engine stronger too. Also pin the crank while u do upgrade to UD pulley.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,161
Likes: 1
From: Chandler AZ
You're right. I only gain 3 hp and 10 pounds of torque with the fast intake and LS2 thottlebody. I think a cam would wake it up. I'm staying with the Kooks.
Iam wondering u gained almost nothing (assume) with FAST 90 Intake/ 90 TB, those numbers u can pull easily with LT headers, and other minor small boltons with safe tune.
Any small cam would do easily another 20-30 Rwhp. 224/230 with 588/5xx 114 LS will do the trick, sells by LPE, Comp cam 444, and also conatct our AFR heads guru Tony mamo, along with V springs and nothing else keep Oem oil pump but upgrade to ATI super damper pulley 10% UD pulley and Katech T Chain. These parts along with above mentioned Cam not only will give u another easy 40+ HP but also make Engine stronger too. Also pin the crank while u do upgrade to UD pulley.
Any small cam would do easily another 20-30 Rwhp. 224/230 with 588/5xx 114 LS will do the trick, sells by LPE, Comp cam 444, and also conatct our AFR heads guru Tony mamo, along with V springs and nothing else keep Oem oil pump but upgrade to ATI super damper pulley 10% UD pulley and Katech T Chain. These parts along with above mentioned Cam not only will give u another easy 40+ HP but also make Engine stronger too. Also pin the crank while u do upgrade to UD pulley.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,048
Likes: 300
From: FL
I know. Just trying to give you and idea what king of gain was acheived with this cam profile.
I think a 218-220 on the intake should be enough. These engines respond very well to cam upgrades so it may be hard to stay under a 20rwhp gain.
You may be able to squeeze some more power with an optimized tune.
I think a 218-220 on the intake should be enough. These engines respond very well to cam upgrades so it may be hard to stay under a 20rwhp gain.
You may be able to squeeze some more power with an optimized tune.
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Instructor
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
From: Grand Rapids MI
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
much easier to take the wt out of your car, then open the engine
carpet is 60 some pounds. changing seats or taking out the passsanger seat can take out 30-40 pounds. That is almost 100 lbs lost there.
not as sexy as a new cam or more HP, but much easier to do.
spo a 376 rwhp that means you can drop the wt of your car, with you, a 1/3 tank of fuel to 3271.2 lbs
Look for ways to take out 100 lbs
carpet is 60 some pounds. changing seats or taking out the passsanger seat can take out 30-40 pounds. That is almost 100 lbs lost there.
not as sexy as a new cam or more HP, but much easier to do.
spo a 376 rwhp that means you can drop the wt of your car, with you, a 1/3 tank of fuel to 3271.2 lbs
Look for ways to take out 100 lbs
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
From: Grand Rapids MI
So is it legal to make the engine flow a lot more and then use a small throttle body to flatten out the power band? What about an adjustable throttle stop? Although that would make it real easy to cheat during a race.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,523
Likes: 34
From: King George Virginia
I'm campaigning a '03 Z 06 in NASA TTS. In this class you need to stay under 8.7 to 1 power to weight ratio. I am a little below the power I could have and need no more than 20 horsepower.
Now using an internally stock LS 6 with Kook ceramic coated full length headers, B&B bullets, Random Cats, Halltech Stringer, MSD 8.5 wires, iridium plugs, Fast 90 intake, LS2 90 throttle body, and getting 376 RWHP.
I'm lucky to win the Az. Region TTS Championship this year, but will need all of it next year for Nationals.
I think a mild cam will get me there. I want something very reliable and smooth idle. High ratio rockers won't give me enough alone.
Do you guys have any recommendations on brand and specs of a cam?
Now using an internally stock LS 6 with Kook ceramic coated full length headers, B&B bullets, Random Cats, Halltech Stringer, MSD 8.5 wires, iridium plugs, Fast 90 intake, LS2 90 throttle body, and getting 376 RWHP.
I'm lucky to win the Az. Region TTS Championship this year, but will need all of it next year for Nationals.
I think a mild cam will get me there. I want something very reliable and smooth idle. High ratio rockers won't give me enough alone.
Do you guys have any recommendations on brand and specs of a cam?
DUR @ .004" 278*/ 286*
DUR @ .050" 216*/ 224*
LIFT .551/.551 (Lift will be 585 with 1.8 rockers)
OVERLAP 53*
LSA 115*
Its from (http://www.vincihiperformance.com/ ). Its a CRANE CAM, if you use this CAM with the CRANE 1.8 rockers you will be in the vicinity of 400 - 410 RWHP with 395 RWTQ. You cant be sure till you DYNO it. This is a good combination and is very reliable.
Last edited by 08 ATOMIC-Z; Jan 13, 2009 at 02:11 PM. Reason: more info
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,060
Likes: 291
From: Pasco WA
Just add a smallish cam and increase your weight a little, if needed. About a 222-226, I'd say. The advantage of being able to place added weight in specific locations would allow you to improve handling, too. Does this racing class use chassis dynos to prove competitors' HP claims? You could easily limit your RPMs to record a lower reading, too.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
They use the dynojet
Once a car comes though tech and dynoed the OBD II port is sealed.
Adjustable TBs or computer programs are not allowed.
Two Years ago the car that won TTS was disqualified do to an adjustable ECU program.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,816
Likes: 132
From: Plano TX
A " good tuner " should be able to get you up to 400rwhp easily with your mods.. My 02 Z dynoed 355 stock and 381 with an excellent tune and a halltech CAI only.. There are a lot of really good tuners( LS1/Ls6 )here in the Dallas Texas Metroplex due to the Ls1/Ls6 population.. LG Motorsports, 21st century Muscle Cars , RPM in Lewisville, Corvettes of Dallas, Mark Shaner in Arlington...etc If your tuner can't get at least 400rwhp you need to look elsewhere or make a trip here to Big D
Last edited by David426; Jan 13, 2009 at 03:09 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,060
Likes: 291
From: Pasco WA
YES all cars in this class will be dynoed at the National Championships.
They use the dynojet
Once a car comes though tech and dynoed the OBD II port is sealed.
Adjustable TBs or computer programs are not allowed.
Two Years ago the car that won TTS was disqualified do to an adjustable ECU program.
They use the dynojet
Once a car comes though tech and dynoed the OBD II port is sealed.
Adjustable TBs or computer programs are not allowed.
Two Years ago the car that won TTS was disqualified do to an adjustable ECU program.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,804
Likes: 0
From: Dallas Texas
I'm campaigning a '03 Z 06 in NASA TTS. In this class you need to stay under 8.7 to 1 power to weight ratio. I am a little below the power I could have and need no more than 20 horsepower.
Now using an internally stock LS 6 with Kook ceramic coated full length headers, B&B bullets, Random Cats, Halltech Stringer, MSD 8.5 wires, iridium plugs, Fast 90 intake, LS2 90 throttle body, and getting 376 RWHP.
I'm lucky to win the Az. Region TTS Championship this year, but will need all of it next year for Nationals.
I think a mild cam will get me there. I want something very reliable and smooth idle. High ratio rockers won't give me enough alone.
Do you guys have any recommendations on brand and specs of a cam?
Now using an internally stock LS 6 with Kook ceramic coated full length headers, B&B bullets, Random Cats, Halltech Stringer, MSD 8.5 wires, iridium plugs, Fast 90 intake, LS2 90 throttle body, and getting 376 RWHP.
I'm lucky to win the Az. Region TTS Championship this year, but will need all of it next year for Nationals.
I think a mild cam will get me there. I want something very reliable and smooth idle. High ratio rockers won't give me enough alone.
Do you guys have any recommendations on brand and specs of a cam?
Todd
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
OK , I didn't explain myself very well.... My "theory" is if the track is not like a superspeedway, you wouldn't have to use the upper register of your rev band. Just cam for midrange, and set your limiter to 6000 and use the new powerband accordingly. Of course, not having any experience with road racing, this could very well be bad advice.
On most road courses using the upper RPM band is needed for those 50 feet or so before a brake zone, vs up shifting / dowsnhifting.
Most road course are 3rd and 4th gear tracks only. almost never 5th or 2nd. So having more RPM in 4th, 6500 to 6800 is needed. Shifting takes too long 1/4 sec per shift and slows the car down.
Using the torque is more advantageous then ppl think.
ie a flat torque curver and a cam to accomidate that.
but with the NASA ST and TTS 8.7:1 power to wt rule, taking wt out of the car so the over all wt is lower has mroe advantge then adding a few HP.
Most ppl find that opening up an engine at this class level is more disastorius the benificial. Using the LS6 Create motor with a great tuner, LTs straight pipes a new CAI, and REMOVING AS MUCH WT as possible to stay just above that 8.7:1 ratio
In the next higher class TTU and TTR or ST1 and SU those guys are tearing down engines left and right. Cams and springs going even from some great engine builders.
a 500 rwhp engine in a road race vette sure is sexy on paper, on a dyno chart and on a forum, but it is hell to maintain.
That is why the NASA TTS and ST2 are so popular, LS6 create motors can take a consistent abuse.
Pro
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 579
Likes: 0
I understand and your theory is good. However,
On most road courses using the upper RPM band is needed for those 50 feet or so before a brake zone, vs up shifting / dowsnhifting.
Most road course are 3rd and 4th gear tracks only. almost never 5th or 2nd. So having more RPM in 4th, 6500 to 6800 is needed. Shifting takes too long 1/4 sec per shift and slows the car down.
Using the torque is more advantageous then ppl think.
ie a flat torque curver and a cam to accomidate that.
but with the NASA ST and TTS 8.7:1 power to wt rule, taking wt out of the car so the over all wt is lower has mroe advantge then adding a few HP.
Most ppl find that opening up an engine at this class level is more disastorius the benificial. Using the LS6 Create motor with a great tuner, LTs straight pipes a new CAI, and REMOVING AS MUCH WT as possible to stay just above that 8.7:1 ratio
In the next higher class TTU and TTR or ST1 and SU those guys are tearing down engines left and right. Cams and springs going even from some great engine builders.
a 500 rwhp engine in a road race vette sure is sexy on paper, on a dyno chart and on a forum, but it is hell to maintain.
That is why the NASA TTS and ST2 are so popular, LS6 create motors can take a consistent abuse.
On most road courses using the upper RPM band is needed for those 50 feet or so before a brake zone, vs up shifting / dowsnhifting.
Most road course are 3rd and 4th gear tracks only. almost never 5th or 2nd. So having more RPM in 4th, 6500 to 6800 is needed. Shifting takes too long 1/4 sec per shift and slows the car down.
Using the torque is more advantageous then ppl think.
ie a flat torque curver and a cam to accomidate that.
but with the NASA ST and TTS 8.7:1 power to wt rule, taking wt out of the car so the over all wt is lower has mroe advantge then adding a few HP.
Most ppl find that opening up an engine at this class level is more disastorius the benificial. Using the LS6 Create motor with a great tuner, LTs straight pipes a new CAI, and REMOVING AS MUCH WT as possible to stay just above that 8.7:1 ratio
In the next higher class TTU and TTR or ST1 and SU those guys are tearing down engines left and right. Cams and springs going even from some great engine builders.
a 500 rwhp engine in a road race vette sure is sexy on paper, on a dyno chart and on a forum, but it is hell to maintain.
That is why the NASA TTS and ST2 are so popular, LS6 create motors can take a consistent abuse.
It seems like an optimized tune and weight reduction is your best bet. The reliability you gain from a mostly stock engine will probably far outweigh the benefits of a cam swap. Highly modified motors are best suited for dragstrip duty and street cars. The upper revs you need to turn on a road course should put far more stress on your engine than most drag cars, and certainly street warrior, vehicles will ever see. Since NASA is no longer docking you 5 points for the tune, how many points do you have left over? Knowing this may allow more experienced road racers to utilize/guide you in the best direction. Good luck, and congrats on your past wins 