WTF!! Seriously another broken starter!!
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 161
Likes: 1
From: Cypress TX
WTF!! Seriously another broken starter!!
Ok, I just replaced this because the last one broke in the same spot. Well, this one has a whopping 3 starts on it!!! thats it!! The bolts were still torqued down properly, so i know it didn't come loose. This is a new ac/delco starter.
I drove it a few days ago and everything was fine.
I don't have any crazy super high engine compression either; It's not stock, but mild cam & milled heads.
Anyone else have this problem and is there a starter thats built beefier or made of steel instead of crappy aluminum?
thanks happy st paddy's day!
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,398
Likes: 1,139
From: Dyer, IN
Ok, I just replaced this because the last one broke in the same spot. Well, this one has a whopping 3 starts on it!!! thats it!! The bolts were still torqued down properly, so i know it didn't come loose. This is a new ac/delco starter.
I drove it a few days ago and everything was fine.
I don't have any crazy super high engine compression either; It's not stock, but mild cam & milled heads.
Anyone else have this problem and is there a starter thats built beefier or made of steel instead of crappy aluminum?
thanks happy st paddy's day!
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Pictures please. That way I may be able to come up with a reason that yours is breaking.
Please post pics or send them to my e-mail bill327@msn.com
Please post pics or send them to my e-mail bill327@msn.com
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,727
Likes: 19
From: Carson City, NV
tell us more....this happened to me a few years ago when I did a cam upgrade and relocated my coil packs. I got the wiring *** backwards on bank one. The car started and generally ran ok but backfired now and then especially while starting. That webbed aluminum is the weak spot on the starter housing. Might be better to replace a starter than replace a flywheel. So now my question is....does your car backfire when you start it? could your timing be a factor? Normally the starters are fine and last a long time.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,226
Likes: 45
From: Castleton VA
Cruise-In VIII Veteran
Another potential cause to consider: Damaged teeth on the flywheel, which overstressed the housing when the starter pinion teeth hit/bump over the bum flywheel teeth.
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,774
Likes: 363
From: Midland TX
Be glad the just the starter broke and not the block with it like mine did last November at under 40,000 miles! Had to replace entire short block under extended warranty. Now every time I turn the key I hold my breath! Between me and 8 mechanics we never found the cause?
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 161
Likes: 1
From: Cypress TX
i had just swapped in a new LS7 clutch/flywheel combo, so i know the teeth are fine on the flywheel. Engine block is alright too, i checked it last night when i pulled the starter.
no possibility of hooking it up backwards, i drove it to the store, engine was running great!. i can get some more pics a little later.
this is exactly what happened to my last starter and the reason i had to get a new one. I didn't get any pics of the old one.
eric
no possibility of hooking it up backwards, i drove it to the store, engine was running great!. i can get some more pics a little later.
this is exactly what happened to my last starter and the reason i had to get a new one. I didn't get any pics of the old one.
eric
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Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,398
Likes: 1,139
From: Dyer, IN
i had just swapped in a new LS7 clutch/flywheel combo, so i know the teeth are fine on the flywheel. Engine block is alright too, i checked it last night when i pulled the starter.
no possibility of hooking it up backwards, i drove it to the store, engine was running great!. i can get some more pics a little later.
this is exactly what happened to my last starter and the reason i had to get a new one. I didn't get any pics of the old one.
eric
no possibility of hooking it up backwards, i drove it to the store, engine was running great!. i can get some more pics a little later.
this is exactly what happened to my last starter and the reason i had to get a new one. I didn't get any pics of the old one.
eric
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,347
Likes: 4
From: Slidell La
Correct.
There are a lot of forces acting on the starter to cause the casting to fail. I am suspecious of starter/ring gear clearance and or the possibility of kickback from the engine.
The only place there is enough power to do this comes from the engine and not the starter. Since this is the second starter I have to assume the starter is the effect not the cause of failure.
Gear mesh, / gear tip to root clearance / depth of starter gear into ring gear / and the engine kickback .... Knock sensor, Timing, plug wires, mixture and on. There are many things to cause an engine to kick back. I would do a quick check to confirm the gear mesh then take a serious look at what is happening in the engine to cause a cylinder to put that much power into the stater in the crank cycle.
Best of luck you have a serious issue wish you well.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,398
Likes: 1,139
From: Dyer, IN
Gear mesh, / gear tip to root clearance / depth of starter gear into ring gear / and the engine kickback .... Knock sensor, Timing, plug wires, mixture and on. There are many things to cause an engine to kick back. I would do a quick check to confirm the gear mesh then take a serious look at what is happening in the engine to cause a cylinder to put that much power into the stater in the crank cycle.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 161
Likes: 1
From: Cypress TX
I didn't check gear mesh, i assumed that the starter would bolt up in the correct position since the bolts are tight clearanced; plus i don't think there is anything in the service manual on shimming etc, but don't quote me on that, since i don't have them in front of me right now.
I had the battery disconnected for 3 days to install the new tick/tilton master cylinder. After everything was connected back up i cranked it over for a second or two then let off when it didn't start, one more blip of the starter and it broke. Looks like a stress concentration in the radius of the bolt pad.
i'm gonna take a look at the starters summit racing has; looks like a billet mount; probably a better grade like 6061-T6 and not cast aluminum.
I had the battery disconnected for 3 days to install the new tick/tilton master cylinder. After everything was connected back up i cranked it over for a second or two then let off when it didn't start, one more blip of the starter and it broke. Looks like a stress concentration in the radius of the bolt pad.
i'm gonna take a look at the starters summit racing has; looks like a billet mount; probably a better grade like 6061-T6 and not cast aluminum.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,398
Likes: 1,139
From: Dyer, IN
I didn't check gear mesh, i assumed that the starter would bolt up in the correct position since the bolts are tight clearanced; plus i don't think there is anything in the service manual on shimming etc, but don't quote me on that, since i don't have them in front of me right now.
I had the battery disconnected for 3 days to install the new tick/tilton master cylinder. After everything was connected back up i cranked it over for a second or two then let off when it didn't start, one more blip of the starter and it broke. Looks like a stress concentration in the radius of the bolt pad.
i'm gonna take a look at the starters summit racing has; looks like a billet mount; probably a better grade like 6061-T6 and not cast aluminum.
I had the battery disconnected for 3 days to install the new tick/tilton master cylinder. After everything was connected back up i cranked it over for a second or two then let off when it didn't start, one more blip of the starter and it broke. Looks like a stress concentration in the radius of the bolt pad.
i'm gonna take a look at the starters summit racing has; looks like a billet mount; probably a better grade like 6061-T6 and not cast aluminum.
What is the sequence of events here? Did the old starter break with the old flywheel, or LS7 flywheel?
Last edited by lucky131969; Mar 18, 2009 at 12:29 PM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 161
Likes: 1
From: Cypress TX
the old starter (original i'm guessing) broke with the original ls1 flywheel. I had a low battery on the original starter and was blipping the starter to try and get it to start. It didn't have enough power to completely turn the motor and after about the 5th or 6th time, it broke. No other damage, just the starter mount.
This time, new starter, new fully charged battery, new flywheel. It was really cranking over then kapow and that awful sound again...I knew exactly what it was, but would have never thought it would do it on a full charged battery (it had started 3 days prior just fine).
I just returned it to the parts store (XL parts) in houston for a full refund. I'm gonna find an aftermarket one now.
This time, new starter, new fully charged battery, new flywheel. It was really cranking over then kapow and that awful sound again...I knew exactly what it was, but would have never thought it would do it on a full charged battery (it had started 3 days prior just fine).
I just returned it to the parts store (XL parts) in houston for a full refund. I'm gonna find an aftermarket one now.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11,150
Likes: 890
From: South Western Ontario
I would definately check the ring gear to starter gear clearance. The only starter I've broken was jamming into the ring gear.
Be careful with a stronger aftermarket starter. If you don't fix the cause you could break the block next time.
Peter
Be careful with a stronger aftermarket starter. If you don't fix the cause you could break the block next time.
Peter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,798
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From: It's true money can't buy happiness, but it is more comfortable crying in a Corvette than on a bicyc
St. Jude Donor '13
My concern with installing a billet or hardened after market starter is something is causing your starter to break, it's the weak spot. By strengthening the weak spot you will move the effect to the next weak spot. Who knows what that would be?
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 227
Likes: 2
From: Livingston TN
check your flywheel, mine did the same thing last year, 2 broken starters before i found the missing tooth, I had a missing tooth and the one next to it worn down and had to have the block welded and tapped out plus a new flywheel/clutch assy...good luck
Racer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 452
Likes: 0
From: San Angelo TX
St. Jude Donor '08-'10
The starter could do this to itself if the engine was seized but sounds like yours is running. Most likely a backfire while starting or something like that. I would not replace it with a better starter till you figure that out tho.
Racer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 471
Likes: 2
From: Hillsboro MO
Like the others have said, be very careful in this situation, the block is next in line for breaking. I had this happen to a friend's car--it ended up being a bad head gasket. he broke 1 starter and didnt tell me anything, he replaced it with another. ran it for about a week, and it broke that one. replaced it again, ran a week and broke the starter and block. the car was hydrolocking from bad head gaskets! sometimes i guess the piston was just right and it would fire up first crank. He thought the same as you...that the battery was low and wouldnt turn the engine over, when it actually just couldnt compress the coolant in the cyllinder. once he bounced it a few times, teh coolant would escape out of the valves and it would fire up. he said it always ran great when this problem was occurring. something to think about anyway.
any white smoke when running? low coolant light?
any white smoke when running? low coolant light?
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
If you even suspect that theres a head gasket issue, recommend that you pull ALL the spark plugs and have the cooling system pressurized.
Let it sit overnight and then have someone crank the engine over and see if any coolant comes out of the spark plug holes
Bill
Let it sit overnight and then have someone crank the engine over and see if any coolant comes out of the spark plug holes
Bill