in all the pics people have posted, never have i seen a degree wheel in any of them when they show a cam being intalled...they post dozens of pics..one would think a pic of the wheel would be in one...also if the heads are not removed....no way you can degree that cam....

 

Pretty much everything you just said is incorrect! Comp cam sells a degree kit...one for heads off and one for heads on. But I should clarify things here - not sure you can degree with the heads on without a solid lifter in place....so the heads may have to be pulled on LS engine - sorry I may have jumped the gun on that one!
And.....see this thread - I believe you will see a degree wheel more than once starting at post #52!
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...of-pics-3.html

 

funny you should say that...you see i have always known that one can degree a cam with the heads off, but not heads on...when i put out a post last year with respect to what shops degree a cam....a very well known shop on this board and ls1 said "you can not degree a cam with the heads on" so you see....i never said i was an expert...yet a major sponser on this and ls1 who are the "experts" are incorrect.

 

>$$ to pull the heads

 

or do they just want to sell product?


Pull the heads to degree the cam

 

Thanks to everyone. I have all the tools necessary except the degree wheel. I have one on order from NAPA (about $50) After spending near $1000 for the parts to do this, and investing all the time, $50 is a minor cost to do it right.

Steve

 

You can degree a cam with the heads on.
Pretty sure Kurtomac just did his this way not long ago.

Spark plug piston stop for locating TDC.

The tough part would be finding a suitable long extension rod for the indicator to reach down to the lifter cup. (...kinda gives me a neat idea for modifying some old stock pushrods to use for this purpose).

And once it is set up, some downward pressure would need to be kept on the indicator rod, or the lifter will likely stick in the tray at peak lift, and it needs to keep following the lobe down.

 

I love this thread

We used to degree our cams with the heads on all the time.

Like Comp Cams says :

We also recommend positioning the dial indicator on the
#1 intake retainer (this is the valve spring retainer) because lift measurements will include any deflection that may occur in the pushrod and rocker arm. This makes the degreeing process as accurate as possible in relation to what actually
goes on inside the engine.



Step 1: The camshaft and timing set have been installed. Make sure that the timing marks on both the
cam gear and crank gear are aligned properly per the cam installation instructions. Use chalk or
similar marker to better define the marks.

Step 2: For example, we have our cam card and it suggests we install the cam on 106 degree intake
centerline.

Install all the rocker arms and pushrods in the engine as normal.

On #1 intake lobe, install the solid lifter in place of a hydraulic lifter. If a solid lifter or roller cam is being checked, use that respective lifter. Adjust the #1 intake lash to exactly zero. Do not pre-load the lifter. Next, adjust the
#1 exhaust lash to zero. You should be able to turn both pushrods with your fingers easily.
Step 3: Attach the pointer to the block. Many people will make a pointer out of some sort of rigid, yet
manageable wire. A stiff coat hanger wire works well.
Step 4: Attach the degree wheel to the balancer and install the assembly on the crankshaft. There are
several ways to attach the degree wheel to the crankshaft. The crank may be rotated from either the
front or from the flywheel end. Obviously, if the engine is in the car, you must rotate from

 

I know part of what you are taking into account when you degree, is the sprockets/timing set, however I have heard some say it even less necessary to degree your cam if you order it from a place like TR, and have it doctored. I believe this is an extra $25 from them.

Thoughts?

 

And how ya gonna do that without pulling the head?


You wouldn't be able to degree with an assembled valvetrain and measuring the valve movement with a hyd lifter.

You'd need to indicate the actual lifter movement, in such a manner that you don't compress it, but yet keeping just enough pressure on it to keep the lifter riding on the lobe.

 

I'm assuming he's going to install light checking springs to do that, you're right it wouldn't be possible to be accurate otherwise. If he pulls the rockers and puts a light extension on the dial indicator, riding in the lifter cup that would work also....

 

Sorry, I've been away.

You put dummy lifer in, a solid lifter (everyone has one or two of these don't they ??), maybe even a lighter valve spring, depending on if it's a flat tappet cam or not (flat tappet cams should use a light spring to keep the new cam from galling on the botton of the lifter)(good idea to use a lighter spring to "run" the cam in too)

 

I guess I don't know enough about the LSX engines, I assume you can pull the lifters without pulling the heads ??

 

Nope, heads must be off.

Fact of the matter is anyone swapping a cam to a popular moderate lift/duration cam from a reputable vendor isn't going to gain anything from degreeing their cam other than piece of mind and an intimate understanding of just exactly how their engine works (both good things). For most people the added expense and time required to degree a cam just isn't justifiable. That said however, I would recommend degreeing your cam whenever possible. And definitely if you know that valvetrain clearance is going to be close.

If you buy the comp cam kit you'll need to make a custom mount for the dial indicator mount, purchase an adjustable pushrod length checker and you'll also need to make a solid lifter. You can either epoxy/weld or shim a stock lifter. While degreeing the cam you should also determine the appropriate pushrod length to account for the smaller base circle of the cam (again, for most common cam swaps the vendor can usually recommend an appropriate length push rod based on the heads/gasket/lifters you are using), as well as check the wipe pattern on the valve stem to ensure proper valve train geometry.

For anyone serious about degreeing their cam you should search gmhightech online for the how to write up. It seems like a daunting task at first, but anyone who has patience and an understanding of basic mathematics can properly degree a cam.

 

Heres the GMHTP link http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...cam/index.html

 

Y2K speaks the truth