Valve seal question
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,977
Likes: 256
From: St. Louis Missouri
Valve seal question
I recently installed Patriot Gold springs which included new valve seals (brown). After a few miles, I noticed that I was getting blue smoke at idle. The longer it idles, the worse it gets.
I assumed that I didn't get the valve seals seated properly. I called Patriot and asked if I should replace the seals, they suggested just tapping them down further. When I pulled the springs, I found a couple of valve seals that weren't fully seated. One of which was visibly high... something I don't think I would have overlooked... but accidents happen.
I reseated the valve seals and I'm still getting blue smoke at idle. At this point, I'm pretty frustrated and don't want to go through the motions again without fixing the problem. So... I'm going to order new valve seals.
It looks like I have many options for seals and am looking for guidance. One part of me wants to get Patriot replacement seals... another thinks GM is the way to go (untouched GM guides) and another is pushing me to look for aftermarket.
If GM is the way to go, does anybody have the part number for the correct seals? My factory seals were the larger seals with the integral "spring seat" however, the Patriot springs won't work with those (AFAIK).
I assumed that I didn't get the valve seals seated properly. I called Patriot and asked if I should replace the seals, they suggested just tapping them down further. When I pulled the springs, I found a couple of valve seals that weren't fully seated. One of which was visibly high... something I don't think I would have overlooked... but accidents happen.
I reseated the valve seals and I'm still getting blue smoke at idle. At this point, I'm pretty frustrated and don't want to go through the motions again without fixing the problem. So... I'm going to order new valve seals.
It looks like I have many options for seals and am looking for guidance. One part of me wants to get Patriot replacement seals... another thinks GM is the way to go (untouched GM guides) and another is pushing me to look for aftermarket.
If GM is the way to go, does anybody have the part number for the correct seals? My factory seals were the larger seals with the integral "spring seat" however, the Patriot springs won't work with those (AFAIK).
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
Not sure what the OD is on the Patriot seals or if they are smaller than GM but here is what happened to me on my daughter's Nissan. I installed aftermarket valve seals and they came off and rode up and down with the valves burning oil like crazy. I complained and received a new set. Same thing happened and I was very careful with installation. I then paid the freight and ordered Nissan seals from the dealer. No problems afterwards. I don't think the rubber was gripping the guide correctly and the aftermarket seals would just come off the guide after a few miles. Not sure if this is the issue you have, but all I can say is the OEM seals fixed it for me. You just need to verify that the GM seals will fit within the ID of the Patriot spring, if so I would go GM all the way. I used GM with the Crane springs I ran a few years back.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,977
Likes: 256
From: St. Louis Missouri
@vettenuts
A similar scenario crossed my mind. Maybe I nicked a valve or two when removing the factory seals. I will be inspecting the valves when I replace the seals this time.
@slothy
I don't know if it was installer error or valve seal error. I have also installed Patriots on several other cars without problems. I'm just a little frustrated and want to make sure the next "fix" is the permanent fix.
A similar scenario crossed my mind. Maybe I nicked a valve or two when removing the factory seals. I will be inspecting the valves when I replace the seals this time.
@slothy
I don't know if it was installer error or valve seal error. I have also installed Patriots on several other cars without problems. I'm just a little frustrated and want to make sure the next "fix" is the permanent fix.
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Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,977
Likes: 256
From: St. Louis Missouri
I ordered (2) sets of GM part number 12457652 (package of 8 exhaust seals). Based upon the description from the GM parts guy, this is the "thimble" style seal, versus the "top hat" style (integrated spring seat).
*Crosses fingers*
*Crosses fingers*
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
Per my parts list, that is the correct part number.
Racer
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 448
Likes: 29
From: Regina SK
When you are slipping them on, some seals come with a plastic tube that allows you to slip them over the valve notch for the locks without damage. If you did not do this, you could have possibly nicked a seal or two sliding them over the valve notch.
Racer
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 256
Likes: 1
From: Waukee IA
To the original poster did you get your new seals installed and did they fit the springs?
I'm starting to get an issue with heavy blue smoke at idle now and its been over a year and about 6K miles since my cam install and noticed it is getting worse. Did a pressure test a month ago and all of the cylinders were at 200-205psi(40K miles on the car). It smokes at idle, but doesn't smoke on accel, only when not on the throttle, which I've been told is the valve seals. I used the Viton brown valve seals that came with the springs, but wondering if one of them has gone bad or not. I've got an 03' Z, with the newer PCV Valve and catch can. Its got to be a faulty valve seal somewhere.... Was just curious if you got it fixed.
I'm starting to get an issue with heavy blue smoke at idle now and its been over a year and about 6K miles since my cam install and noticed it is getting worse. Did a pressure test a month ago and all of the cylinders were at 200-205psi(40K miles on the car). It smokes at idle, but doesn't smoke on accel, only when not on the throttle, which I've been told is the valve seals. I used the Viton brown valve seals that came with the springs, but wondering if one of them has gone bad or not. I've got an 03' Z, with the newer PCV Valve and catch can. Its got to be a faulty valve seal somewhere.... Was just curious if you got it fixed.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,977
Likes: 256
From: St. Louis Missouri
I replaced all of these seals this weekend and upon first (and second) start, there was no smoke. There were at least 6 seals that were not seated. The GM seals were very close in OD (.030 larger) and cleared the inside of the spring fine. However, they were significantly taller. There was still a very small gap between the Patriot spring seats at the bottom of the seals. Unfortunately, the dreaded "Service Column Lock" struck me on the 3rd startup. I have a CLB in the mail right now and will report back after I get more miles on them.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 25,889
Likes: 7
From: Virginia Beach
CI 3-5-6-7-8 Veteran
FYI the stock valve seals are a different part number for the intake and exaust. One is black and one is brown, they're different lengths, can't remember which is which.
When I put fresh stock springs in at 60,000ish miles I replaced my seals. You want to dip them in oil then push them down. Use a socket to "click" them in place. www.ls1howto.com has a good tutorial w/ pics.
When I got my G5-X2 cam it cam w/ new viton (I think that's what they were) seals. They were all the same length. LG said that was fine and I installed them and have had no issues for 2+ years.
Check out www.ls1howto.com and see if you're installing them correctly... I think it's in the F-body cam swap tutorial if I remember correctly.
When I put fresh stock springs in at 60,000ish miles I replaced my seals. You want to dip them in oil then push them down. Use a socket to "click" them in place. www.ls1howto.com has a good tutorial w/ pics.
When I got my G5-X2 cam it cam w/ new viton (I think that's what they were) seals. They were all the same length. LG said that was fine and I installed them and have had no issues for 2+ years.
Check out www.ls1howto.com and see if you're installing them correctly... I think it's in the F-body cam swap tutorial if I remember correctly.