Cryo treating trans gears
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 946
Likes: 0
From: Port Charlotte Florida
Cryo treating trans gears
I have talked to a few people about cryo treating my 1th-4th gears in the trans. A couple people have said to do it, others have said its a waste of money. I want to know your guys opinions on this. Reason why I am asking is bc I blew the counter shaft gears and it took a couple other gears with it. I know no one makes a stronger gear for the M12 trans so I need what I can get as far as trying to make it last. I have just over 760rwhp and I am hoping this is the last time I will be pulling the trans out for a rebuild. 
Let me know
JASON
Let me know
JASON
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
Bullet proof race transmissions
http://www.rocklandstandard.com/c5.htm
and
http://www.rocklandstandard.com/transzilla.asp
http://www.rocklandstandard.com/c5.htm
and
http://www.rocklandstandard.com/transzilla.asp
Last edited by AU N EGL; Oct 20, 2009 at 12:49 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
What they provided are hardened steel gears designed for racing. Shift forks designed for racing.
forget the mico polish or cryo idea. When you start asking about little specifics, they think this guy does not know what he is talking about.
Send your trans to Rockland to have them rebuild it properly to take the 750 rwhp.
If you read their tech papers you see that one of the causes of trans failure is cheap parts and or replacing only a few parts and not rebuilding the whole trans.
Parts are lift spans. When you have that much HP you need to rebuild often and that is just the way it is.
An other source is RPM transmission ( think they are or where a forum sponsor) ask for Rodney, He knows vettes
http://www.rpmtransmissions.com/c5pricing.html
Good Luck
Last edited by AU N EGL; Oct 21, 2009 at 08:32 AM.
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 226
Likes: 2
obviously, i disagree.
if tumble polishing and cyro treating things helps nothing, why do those processes exist? for FUN! thats why!
ive heard quite a bit about cry and tumble polishing gears for strength. there where some guys years back that had a regular tremec 5 speed running 8 second quarter miles with polished and cryo'd gears. x2c racing was their name, and i actually had the x2c v.2.0 in my mustang, but never even got to test it really as other things came up and i ended up parting the car out.. so i didnt count that as personal experience.
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Instructor
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 226
Likes: 2
forget the mico polish or cryo idea. When you start asking about little specifics, they think this guy does not know what he is talking about.
If you read their tech papers you see that one of the causes of trans failure is cheap parts and or replacing only a few parts and not rebuilding the whole trans.
Good Luck
If you read their tech papers you see that one of the causes of trans failure is cheap parts and or replacing only a few parts and not rebuilding the whole trans.
Good Luck
if you read their tech papers, you will see that they are too lazy to inspect parts, and its easier on them and less work to just buy all new parts, and they pass that off as some value to you. the truth is a LOT of technicians have that attitude. and in a transmission esp with gears that could have micro cracks it COULD be of some value, but most likely isnt. and if everything else must be replaced.. they are basically forcing you into a full build. hoorah.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
Time vs Money.
if you have the time and you can do it yourself, great. If not and you have the money for a whole new trans, great.
Do you want to spend your time driving / racing or building / rebuilding ?
if you have the time and you can do it yourself, great. If not and you have the money for a whole new trans, great.
Do you want to spend your time driving / racing or building / rebuilding ?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,315
Likes: 17
From: Near Jacksonville Fl.
I do have personal experience with design and testing of transmission gears and I agree with AU N EGL.
The fact is any strength gained by micro polishing is minimal at best the real ways to improve strength are material changes.
So if you can find someone to make some gears from 9310 steel you will have the best you can get without changing helix angle.
To go beyond that would take a complete redesign of the gear box including center distance and face width of gears.
Face it, at your power levels a transmission is disposable!
The fact is any strength gained by micro polishing is minimal at best the real ways to improve strength are material changes.
So if you can find someone to make some gears from 9310 steel you will have the best you can get without changing helix angle.
To go beyond that would take a complete redesign of the gear box including center distance and face width of gears.
Face it, at your power levels a transmission is disposable!
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
I looked at buying an ex Trans Am race car (800 hp) and I was told the same thing. At that level transmissions are like brake pads, rotors and tires, they are disposable.
again Rockland Standard makes their gears out of the 9310 steel. IIRC
again Rockland Standard makes their gears out of the 9310 steel. IIRC
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
Rockland Standard is THE transmission source for road racing sets
G-force makes many gears sets and rebuilds trans
Emmco, Hewland are two of the big names in sequential
very high dollar
I have a Rockland Standard tranzilla and diff on the way
G-force makes many gears sets and rebuilds trans
Emmco, Hewland are two of the big names in sequential
very high dollar
I have a Rockland Standard tranzilla and diff on the way
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 146
Likes: 1
From: Milpitas CA
I work for a major defense contractor, and am a manufacturing engineer. Over twenty years ago, I did a controlled comparison test for cryo treated cutting tools. The test was well-controlled, but I and the team were unable to discover ANY difference in performance as a result of the use of the cryo treating. I realize the applicability is a different deal. Surface hardness vs. strength. But, the two are related. Frankly, I think this is a snake oil process that just won't go away. It exists because someone thought of it and had success selling it. That doesn't mean that it works. Think about gasoline ionizers that "improve fuel economy 50%". If cryo-treating did work, many of the factory transmission and differential parts would be cryo treated. Not to make them 800HP strong, or longer lasting, but to make them equally strong, but smaller and lighter in weight.
Pat
Pat
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,966
Likes: 22
From: Frederick Maryland
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11
To the OP, IMHO, at your power level, the cryo treatment is money spent unwisely. Say the upgraded M12 will take up to 600 FT LBS, the cryo treatment might up that to 630 FT LBS. Is it worth it? Only your $$ would know. This trannie came out of an 02 Z06 with the same power level as yours!
