On the headers/starter area--I looked at that myself as best I could and it's not possible for the wires I'm seeing to touch the headers--I pulled on them gently and they won't reach. However, the headers obscure my vision of that are somewhat. So I won't rule it out just yet.

Thanks Everyone--I have much work to do this weekend!

 

Ok--I found this--mine does not rub there. The black neg wire is actually closer but it does not rub. Also, these 2 are physically incapable of hitting the nearest header tube.

However--I took the liberty of removing the battery and the composite tray that supports it (4 bolts--should have done this before).

Now--the + cable does touch the frame there, though it is sheathed.
I see rub marks on the metal and the sheath. I pulled back the sheath, and on the pos+ cable, there are 3 indent marks but they do not make it through the insulation by any means. That's a heavy guage wire too.

Would those indentations do __it? I would think they are completely benign.

Is there any way to check resistance through the pos cable at the battery and compare to some known reference resistence range; see if it's too high, indicating damage some where between the battery and the ignition switch?

I still have to check those fuses to see if tight. Also, have to raise car and see if I can see solenoid / starter area any better this time.

 

any evidence of corrosion on the battery terminals/connections? or battery acid on PCM/connectors under the battery tray?

 

Terminals are great. PCM area is kinda dirty. I'll have to take a few minutes to clean to see if any of the debris is corrosion--looks like just a but of dirt. Edit: it is just a tiny bit of dirt on the PCM--no corrosion. Have pics.

I looked at what I think is the starter/solenoid area. The positive wire (RED) goes through a black plastic connector and I can trace it until it has a black head--no abrasions in the red sheath. I can't see beyond the beginning of the black head--I think that's the starter right there--headers block my view. Edit: I managed to get a finger on this--it's very tight and with that gage doesn't move at all.

There's also a purple wire (low gage) and a Red that turns into orange; also a gray one (low gage). The gray one has slack but not enough to hit the header. The orange is tight to the starter;can't get to the purple. I didn't tug much on the gray one.

The headers in this area don't show any signs of burning/melting stuff.

I took pics.

Anybody know where the Red battery wire goes after the starter? How does it get to the ignition switch--what harness does it go through and what does that look like? The manual shows a wire connector to the switch--2 wires--wonder what that path is like.

BTW--Check fuses--all good & tight. 19, 50 pulled and looked good. 47 is not in use.

 

ignition wires come from the fuse box next to the battery, in fact all hot wires are fused and go through the fuse box except for the starter.

 

So if the wire to the ignition switch was grounding out somewhere between the box & the switch, minifuse 19 should blow? It's been said here and elsewhere I believe that if there was a major short a fuse should have blown. This leaves the ignition switch itself.

 

Pull it, clean it, and tighten it up. You should have a long time ago.

The C5 ignition switch is a very common source of problems.

 

Pulling it looks involved in the manual...I haven't had time yet...think I'd rather pay a tech to do it.

What do you think of the idea of smoke/heat in the fuse box causing this? I found a HOT relay this morning (43) when I was putting stuff back together...I was moving wires and stuff...battery out of the car. Hot enough to visibly mar the cover exterior surface finish (though oddly not the interior).

I saw a puff of smoke at the track from the right front tire area...whatever this is has to explain that observation. Seems the fusebox is right there.

I have to look in to how to check the relays.

 

It's actually very easy. Bill has an excellent writeup here.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...ch-repair.html


Interesting, though I'd say that's more likely a symptom and not a cause. What is that relay connected to? Relays are just switches. If it's getting excessively hot, that likely means something is trying to pull too much juice through it.

 

Juice from where? The battery was disconnected and in fact not in the vehicle! This 43 says fan relay...haven't had time to look into it more.

I had a couple of videos from the track...I want to see if I caught this on video.

 

It is an interesting write up...though confirms that to get the switch out, you have to take a lot of stuff apart. There's a lot of "pry this..." in there...I'd rather have someone else responsible for prying in cause breakage results.

 

A circuit or component gets HOT for one of three reasons:

The wiring or component is not big enough to carry the current flow necessary to operate the circuit. In this case GM designed the circuit to handle the current capacity of the fans so that probably would not be an issue unless you have custom fans or added more loads to the circuit.

Something in the circuit is defective and drawing more current than it was designed to. (bad fan motor, bad wiring that is grounded.)

The connections "CONTACTS" inside the relay are " damaged, dirty, or not making proper contact" and heating up when closed and supplying the circuit load. Relays go bad all the time and burn up.

Same thing for your ignition switch, it has the same types of contacts inside it and if one or more have arc/burnt contacts, it can loose contact easily and cause your issues.

BC

 

Bill,

Would the cover touching the relay because of overtightening cause the relay to make improper contact internally? Sounds bizarre. Do those relays have capacitance? Since the car was off and with no battery, the energy I would guess must be from caps somewhere.

 

I doubt that the cover had any thing to do with an over heated relay.

The relays in the Corvette fuse box are really tightly secured. Try removing that relay. If it comes out tight, that shouldn't have any thing to do with that issue. If its in there tight and the relay spade lugs are not burnt or damaged, it just looks like you just have a bad relay.

Bill

 

say whut?

 

It's tight--I can't get it out gently by hand. I assume they pull straight out like the fuses? Maybe it will come w/pliers as w/the fuse.

It just seems beyond strange that in screwing around moving sheathed harnesses around coming from the fuse box, coincidentally, a relay went bad with the car off & battery out.

 

I still don't know what's up w/that fan relay...


...but since the car is a daily driver, I drove in and back today. On the way home, I hopped in the car, turned the key, and...NOTHING. Cranked again, it fired right up.

That sparked a memory of deep winter...it did that once before in December and I thought it was the battery (which did die later...down to 8V!!). I had completely and totally forgotten. The contacts must be just starting to go out. Why the heck it wouldn't duplicate in the parking lot is beyond me.

Thanks to everyone here...I owe some of you a few beers. Just say what kind.

I'll be sure to post a warning in A&R against putting any keys on the C5 key ring. Would not think this could really happen in 40k miles.

Andy

 

My car did the exact same thing when the ignition switch contacts were carboned up.

 

Maybe I was too fast w/this conclusion...had the ignition switched replaced w/new GM one, and it still did that the other day on start up.
I have to take the old switch apart soon.

 

The point was to inspect the old switch before paying for a new one bro. Lot of guys trying to help you, but if you don't follow their advice........you could waste a lot of money.