Harmonic Balancer/Front Oil Seal Replacement
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 143
Likes: 4
From: Wichita KS
Harmonic Balancer/Front Oil Seal Replacement
The harmonic balancer on my 2002 Z06 with 35K miles has failed and needs to be replaced. Based on searches of this forum, it appears that the dampers of choice are the ATI and the Powerbond (I am leaning towards the ATI 917246). I also plan to pin the damper on the crank. I bought an Astro Pneumatic 7822 harmonic balancer removal tool to make the job easier.
I am going to replace the oil seal in the timing cover and was wondering if you can use an oil seal puller to get it out or does the timing cover need to be removed?
Thanks!
Steve
I am going to replace the oil seal in the timing cover and was wondering if you can use an oil seal puller to get it out or does the timing cover need to be removed?
Thanks!
Steve
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
From: Lockport IL
The harmonic balancer on my 2002 Z06 with 35K miles has failed and needs to be replaced. Based on searches of this forum, it appears that the dampers of choice are the ATI and the Powerbond (I am leaning towards the ATI 917246). I also plan to pin the damper on the crank. I bought an Astro Pneumatic 7822 harmonic balancer removal tool to make the job easier.
I am going to replace the oil seal in the timing cover and was wondering if you can use an oil seal puller to get it out or does the timing cover need to be removed?
Thanks!
Steve
I am going to replace the oil seal in the timing cover and was wondering if you can use an oil seal puller to get it out or does the timing cover need to be removed?
Thanks!
Steve
You'll also need a tool to install the balancer...I took my oil sealer off while the timing cover was out with a flat tip screw driver. Maybe other people can chime in on a cleaner way of removing it. . Thinking about it, you probably can remove and install the oil sealer while the cover is on.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 143
Likes: 4
From: Wichita KS
Any suggestions on an installation tool? I was thinking of finding a slightly longer bolt than the stock mounting bolt to get the damper started on the hub, give it several turns, then replace that longer bolt with the stock bolt and torque it to 240 ft-lbs once I can get enough threads started. Finally, I'll replace the stock bolt with the ARP bolt and torque it to 240 ft-lbs. I just need to find out what the thread size of the bolt is.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
Any suggestions on an installation tool? I was thinking of finding a slightly longer bolt than the stock mounting bolt to get the damper started on the hub, give it several turns, then replace that longer bolt with the stock bolt and torque it to 240 ft-lbs once I can get enough threads started. Finally, I'll replace the stock bolt with the ARP bolt and torque it to 240 ft-lbs. I just need to find out what the thread size of the bolt is.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 15,960
Likes: 21
From: West Norriton PA
St. Jude Donor '08
Not sure if that puller will work with the stock balancer.
I have the Kent-Moore on and it is basically a gear style puller.
I have the Kent-Moore on and it is basically a gear style puller.
The harmonic balancer on my 2002 Z06 with 35K miles has failed and needs to be replaced. Based on searches of this forum, it appears that the dampers of choice are the ATI and the Powerbond (I am leaning towards the ATI 917246). I also plan to pin the damper on the crank. I bought an Astro Pneumatic 7822 harmonic balancer removal tool to make the job easier.
I am going to replace the oil seal in the timing cover and was wondering if you can use an oil seal puller to get it out or does the timing cover need to be removed?
Thanks!
Steve
I am going to replace the oil seal in the timing cover and was wondering if you can use an oil seal puller to get it out or does the timing cover need to be removed?
Thanks!
Steve
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 143
Likes: 4
From: Wichita KS
Is the ATI Puller/Installer a better choice? Will it remove the stock balancer?
I have a gear style puller that can pull from the inside or the outside, but I didn't know if that would work.
I have a gear style puller that can pull from the inside or the outside, but I didn't know if that would work.
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 15,960
Likes: 21
From: West Norriton PA
St. Jude Donor '08
If you look in the GM manuals it will give a list of the needed items.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Here is my recommendation:
When you pull and install the damper (STOCK or AFTERMARKET) use a heat gun or torch and heat the damper "HUB" to approx 150 deg. Just heating it that much will make a significant difference in the force it will take to remove and install the damper. It makes the entire job a LOT easier. I use a large STRAP WRENCH to hold the damper while installing and removing the bolt and or presing it on and off. That and a LONG breaker bar and I can do the entire job my self.
I made a tool very simular to VETTENUTS and it will install a stock damper or aftermarket damper without issue.
While you have the damper OFF, please do your self a favor and up-grade the timing chain to a replacement LS2 chaim (LS1 Chain is no longer available as it was replaced by the LS2 chain.) While you have the cove roff, just pop out the seal and reinstall a new one
NOTE!!!! The cover gasket will actually fit in two orientations. ONLY ONE is correct! If you get it backwards you will have a BIG oil leak.
I up-graded to an ARP Damper bolt. Much better and easier to use and it re-useable. The torque sequence is more straight forward and simple. The bolt was like $25.
Just my 2 cents.
I will put some picture in later tonight
BC
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Former Vendor
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,470
Likes: 2
From: Portland OR
St. Jude Donor '10-'11-'12
good recommendations by BC, I have an installer as well if you need to borrow it.
I have a cam swap tool rental that I provided for people for a long time. Comes with lifter rods, pulley installer, dual spring compressor, pushrod length checker, air hose and fitting for spark plugs to keep valves up and a cam degree kit.
I have a cam swap tool rental that I provided for people for a long time. Comes with lifter rods, pulley installer, dual spring compressor, pushrod length checker, air hose and fitting for spark plugs to keep valves up and a cam degree kit.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,618
Likes: 5
From: Overland Park KS
You will be right there to swap out the cam 
5 minute job with the front cover off....
I always replace the gaskets too, inspect the heck out of your tensioner pulleys, water pump, etc..much easier to replace when you have the fans/radiator out of the way and you can see in there. Replace the radiator hoses that are a pita to change when the car is all back together like the bottom one. Keep your old hoses as emergency spares.
Take the time to wash the exterior of the radiator and condenser to get all the sand, hair etc. out. Spin the fans by hand and feel for anything binding like debris that is caught up inside. Much easier to take apart and clean out stuff now rather than later...
5 minute job with the front cover off....I always replace the gaskets too, inspect the heck out of your tensioner pulleys, water pump, etc..much easier to replace when you have the fans/radiator out of the way and you can see in there. Replace the radiator hoses that are a pita to change when the car is all back together like the bottom one. Keep your old hoses as emergency spares.
Take the time to wash the exterior of the radiator and condenser to get all the sand, hair etc. out. Spin the fans by hand and feel for anything binding like debris that is caught up inside. Much easier to take apart and clean out stuff now rather than later...
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 143
Likes: 4
From: Wichita KS
Here is my recommendation:
When you pull and install the damper (STOCK or AFTERMARKET) use a heat gun or torch and heat the damper "HUB" to approx 150 deg. Just heating it that much will make a significant difference in the force it will take to remove and install the damper. It makes the entire job a LOT easier. I use a large STRAP WRENCH to hold the damper while installing and removing the bolt and or presing it on and off. That and a LONG breaker bar and I can do the entire job my self.
I made a tool very simular to VETTENUTS and it will install a stock damper or aftermarket damper without issue.
While you have the damper OFF, please do your self a favor and up-grade the timing chain to a replacement LS2 chaim (LS1 Chain is no longer available as it was replaced by the LS2 chain.) While you have the cove roff, just pop out the seal and reinstall a new one
NOTE!!!! The cover gasket will actually fit in two orientations. ONLY ONE is correct! If you get it backwards you will have a BIG oil leak.
I up-graded to an ARP Damper bolt. Much better and easier to use and it re-useable. The torque sequence is more straight forward and simple. The bolt was like $25.
Just my 2 cents.
I will put some picture in later tonight
BC
When you pull and install the damper (STOCK or AFTERMARKET) use a heat gun or torch and heat the damper "HUB" to approx 150 deg. Just heating it that much will make a significant difference in the force it will take to remove and install the damper. It makes the entire job a LOT easier. I use a large STRAP WRENCH to hold the damper while installing and removing the bolt and or presing it on and off. That and a LONG breaker bar and I can do the entire job my self.
I made a tool very simular to VETTENUTS and it will install a stock damper or aftermarket damper without issue.
While you have the damper OFF, please do your self a favor and up-grade the timing chain to a replacement LS2 chaim (LS1 Chain is no longer available as it was replaced by the LS2 chain.) While you have the cove roff, just pop out the seal and reinstall a new one
NOTE!!!! The cover gasket will actually fit in two orientations. ONLY ONE is correct! If you get it backwards you will have a BIG oil leak.
I up-graded to an ARP Damper bolt. Much better and easier to use and it re-useable. The torque sequence is more straight forward and simple. The bolt was like $25.
Just my 2 cents.
I will put some picture in later tonight
BC
I think I am going to go ahead and replace the timing chain with the LS2 chain.
Thanks again for your help.
Steve
Instructor
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 199
Likes: 2
From: Toronto
Balancer job
Vettenuts, that tool is just a piece of threaded rod I take it, the same thread as the damper bolt? What size and thread is it, and how long of a rod do you need? I assume the idea is to get as many threads as possible engaged with the crank to minimize the chance of damage.
I'm also guessing the rod is a high strength steel? Gonna make one tomorrow, if you can provide the details!!
How much force does it take when wrenching the nut to pull the damper onto the crank? Just curious.....
Bill, my car has about 160,000 kms (100,000 miles on it). How long are the timing chains good for? Picked up the oil seal, but hadn't thought of changing the chain. What are they worth from the dealer?
Thanks guys!
I'm also guessing the rod is a high strength steel? Gonna make one tomorrow, if you can provide the details!!
How much force does it take when wrenching the nut to pull the damper onto the crank? Just curious.....
Bill, my car has about 160,000 kms (100,000 miles on it). How long are the timing chains good for? Picked up the oil seal, but hadn't thought of changing the chain. What are they worth from the dealer?
Thanks guys!
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 143
Likes: 4
From: Wichita KS
I just called GM Parts House, but I couldn't talk with Gene Culley. The guy I did talk to said the timing chain is the same for all LS1, LS2, and LS6 and is part number 12586482. Is this the heavy duty chain? Also, I found this post on the internet: http://www.fatherlarryscorvetteshop....ead.php?t=1343
It looks like GM made a dampener for the timing chain at one point, but the guy I talked with at GM Parts House said it was discontinued. Does anyone know anything about these?
Steve
It looks like GM made a dampener for the timing chain at one point, but the guy I talked with at GM Parts House said it was discontinued. Does anyone know anything about these?
Steve
Safety Car
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,811
Likes: 2
From: Simpsonville SC
A guy sells the balancer tool on another site. Not sure if he is on here or not so Im not saying, do to rules, I think. Any how, I had purchased one and man its the best thing ever made! Its so easy to install the balancer with this tool. Good Luck man!
Bryan
Bryan
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
From: Lockport IL
Thanks for the input. One more question - I think I read in one of these threads that you need to make sure the cover is aligned properly when you install it so that the oil seal is properly centered. Any tricks to this?
I think I am going to go ahead and replace the timing chain with the LS2 chain.
Thanks again for your help.
Steve
I think I am going to go ahead and replace the timing chain with the LS2 chain.
Thanks again for your help.
Steve
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Don't get caught up in special tools. You can easily make your own and YES, installing the damper FIRST and then tightening the cover works very well.
Gene Culley and Patrick www.gmpartshouse.com are very honest and have prices that put your local STEALERSHIPS to shame. Yes, the LS2 chain is the new up-graded chain. Just make sure that you order everything that you need all at once:
Cover gasket
Water Pump gaskets
Timing Chain Cover damper seal
OIL PUMP O ring if you plan on changing the pump.
The chain damper has been discontinued and when it was available, I purchased one:
Here are the tools that I made and use:
My damper install tool. Copied from VETTENUTS tool:
Strap Wrench used to hold the damper while tightening or loosening the damper bolt:
I do the balancer removal and install by my self using those tools. Heating the HUB makes the job a SNAP.
BC
Gene Culley and Patrick www.gmpartshouse.com are very honest and have prices that put your local STEALERSHIPS to shame. Yes, the LS2 chain is the new up-graded chain. Just make sure that you order everything that you need all at once:
Cover gasket
Water Pump gaskets
Timing Chain Cover damper seal
OIL PUMP O ring if you plan on changing the pump.
The chain damper has been discontinued and when it was available, I purchased one:
Here are the tools that I made and use:
My damper install tool. Copied from VETTENUTS tool:
Strap Wrench used to hold the damper while tightening or loosening the damper bolt:
I do the balancer removal and install by my self using those tools. Heating the HUB makes the job a SNAP.
BC
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
I just called GM Parts House, but I couldn't talk with Gene Culley. The guy I did talk to said the timing chain is the same for all LS1, LS2, and LS6 and is part number 12586482. Is this the heavy duty chain? Also, I found this post on the internet: http://www.fatherlarryscorvetteshop....ead.php?t=1343
It looks like GM made a dampener for the timing chain at one point, but the guy I talked with at GM Parts House said it was discontinued. Does anyone know anything about these?
Steve
It looks like GM made a dampener for the timing chain at one point, but the guy I talked with at GM Parts House said it was discontinued. Does anyone know anything about these?
Steve
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 143
Likes: 4
From: Wichita KS
Thanks for the information. This whole thing is getting a little more complicated for me. I just looked at my OEM balancer and it definitely has a weight on it in one area. When I searched this forum, it appears that there are some service bulletins that specifically state that if there is a weight on the balancer, that weight needs to be transferred to the new balancer on manual transmission equipped vehicles (applies to my Z06) and positioned in the same orientation.
So I have 2 questions:
1) If my pulley has slipped on the elastomer, how do I know what that original orientation is?
2) What do I do with the ATI balancer? They specifically state NOT to drill or add weights to their balancers.
I have read many posts where people just put the zero balanced dampers on and don't worry about it, but as an Engineer, I am a little concerned about that weight having a purpose to counter a resonance. This can effect timing chain life, not to mention general engine vibration.
Also, are there any tricks to getting the timing cover off without removing the oil pan and then getting the cover to seal when re-installing?
Thanks.
Steve
So I have 2 questions:
1) If my pulley has slipped on the elastomer, how do I know what that original orientation is?
2) What do I do with the ATI balancer? They specifically state NOT to drill or add weights to their balancers.
I have read many posts where people just put the zero balanced dampers on and don't worry about it, but as an Engineer, I am a little concerned about that weight having a purpose to counter a resonance. This can effect timing chain life, not to mention general engine vibration.
Also, are there any tricks to getting the timing cover off without removing the oil pan and then getting the cover to seal when re-installing?
Thanks.
Steve
Last edited by txst; May 18, 2010 at 07:45 PM. Reason: Additional question
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Rip the old one off and cram the new one on and go from there! You should be fine.
Keep your old ballancer and IF there is a vibration issue, you will KNOW what the offset is and can try that weight in different quardants on the damper.
BC
BC
Keep your old ballancer and IF there is a vibration issue, you will KNOW what the offset is and can try that weight in different quardants on the damper.
BC
BC
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
Thanks for the information. This whole thing is getting a little more complicated for me. I just looked at my OEM balancer and it definitely has a weight on it in one area. When I searched this forum, it appears that there are some service bulletins that specifically state that if there is a weight on the balancer, that weight needs to be transferred to the new balancer on manual transmission equipped vehicles (applies to my Z06) and positioned in the same orientation.
So I have 2 questions:
1) If my pulley has slipped on the elastomer, how do I know what that original orientation is?
2) What do I do with the ATI balancer? They specifically state NOT to drill or add weights to their balancers.
I have read many posts where people just put the zero balanced dampers on and don't worry about it, but as an Engineer, I am a little concerned about that weight having a purpose to counter a resonance. This can effect timing chain life, not to mention general engine vibration.
Also, are there any tricks to getting the timing cover off without removing the oil pan and then getting the cover to seal when re-installing?
Thanks.
Steve
So I have 2 questions:
1) If my pulley has slipped on the elastomer, how do I know what that original orientation is?
2) What do I do with the ATI balancer? They specifically state NOT to drill or add weights to their balancers.
I have read many posts where people just put the zero balanced dampers on and don't worry about it, but as an Engineer, I am a little concerned about that weight having a purpose to counter a resonance. This can effect timing chain life, not to mention general engine vibration.
Also, are there any tricks to getting the timing cover off without removing the oil pan and then getting the cover to seal when re-installing?
Thanks.
Steve
The cover will come off once all bolts are out (don't forget the two lower ones through the pan). Then pull from top of cover and tip it out as the lower corners have RTV from the factory.
I don't use the harmonic damper hub as an alignment tool but rather found it more effective to use a 6" metal rule with graduations to 1/64" to measure for centering and then use the bolts to adjust the position. Once centered, I tighten a couple of the front bolts to lock it in and loosen the lower bolts. Then torque all of the front bolts and tighten the lowers last. The lowers, by this method, are used to center the seal to the crank top and bottom and compress the pan gasket since the pan would normally be installed after the timing cover. (Hope this makes sense.)