Is this normal?
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,434
Likes: 2
From: Harrisburg Pa.
Lets see if we can put this into perspective. First off the DONTS:
- Don't down shift to first unless you almost stopped or stopped.
- DON'T use down shifting to slow or stop your car (unless you loose your primary brakes)
DO's
-Rev match to go to the next lower gear.
- Down shift if you want. Just don't over do it. Brakes work very well.
- STOP LIGHT: Push the clutch in come to a stop, shift to first, go when the light turns green. If you don't have to stop at the light, shift to some gear (other than first) and let the clutch out and go.
I don't believe anyone is saying you cant down shift or rev match. Theres a time and a place for both. The transmission was not designed to do it all the time.
BC
- Don't down shift to first unless you almost stopped or stopped.
- DON'T use down shifting to slow or stop your car (unless you loose your primary brakes)
DO's
-Rev match to go to the next lower gear.
- Down shift if you want. Just don't over do it. Brakes work very well.
- STOP LIGHT: Push the clutch in come to a stop, shift to first, go when the light turns green. If you don't have to stop at the light, shift to some gear (other than first) and let the clutch out and go.
I don't believe anyone is saying you cant down shift or rev match. Theres a time and a place for both. The transmission was not designed to do it all the time.
BC
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,793
Likes: 7
From: Santa Maria Ca.
I've done a clutch,and I've done brakes
Brakes were 1.5 hours,and $200
Clutch was 16 hours and $1100(actually 32 hours,but that's another story)
I downshift very little when stopping-as good as the brakes are on these cars,I just don't see the reason for it.
Brakes were 1.5 hours,and $200
Clutch was 16 hours and $1100(actually 32 hours,but that's another story)
I downshift very little when stopping-as good as the brakes are on these cars,I just don't see the reason for it.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 6,362
Likes: 30
From: Oak Harbor WA
I'll be doing much less rev-matching down shifting going forward because my latest clutch install has been a royal PITA with headers and going to the LS7 setup. I loathe ever having to do this job on jack stands again.
Brakes are cheaper and much easier to replace. However, it is your car, your wallet and your decision.
Also, we all know by now these cars have the guts to take off even from 2nd gear, so unless I am dead stopped I never go back to first...no point really. I have left my car in 4th on decel off the freeway until below 20-25mph then going to 2nd unless stopping.
Keep in mind, downshifting involves many functions, whereas brake action only affects very little in the way of parts used.
Brakes are cheaper and much easier to replace. However, it is your car, your wallet and your decision.
Also, we all know by now these cars have the guts to take off even from 2nd gear, so unless I am dead stopped I never go back to first...no point really. I have left my car in 4th on decel off the freeway until below 20-25mph then going to 2nd unless stopping.
Keep in mind, downshifting involves many functions, whereas brake action only affects very little in the way of parts used.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,150
Likes: 6
From: NS
I'm surprised someone who road races hasn't chimed in. Like Bill said, rev-matching is NOT a bad thing. Actually preferred when racing (heal-toe shifting). When done right it does save wear and tear on the transmission. What you're doing is bliping the engine to get the gear speeds to match up and slide in. Doing this means the synchros need to do much less work trying to match the gear speeds.
Also, engine braking does not wear out the clutch. It's fully engaged.
Also, engine braking does not wear out the clutch. It's fully engaged.
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
From: Springfield VA
I haven't read every response, but honestly I think this is a horrible thing to do. Downshifting to stop the car is very hard on the clutch and transmission. Granted it can handle it, but last time I checked brake pads were a hell of a lot cheaper than clutches. Just my personal opinion.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,628
Likes: 15
From: Seattle WA
I'm surprised someone who road races hasn't chimed in. Like Bill said, rev-matching is NOT a bad thing. Actually preferred when racing (heal-toe shifting). When done right it does save wear and tear on the transmission. What you're doing is bliping the engine to get the gear speeds to match up and slide in. Doing this means the synchros need to do much less work trying to match the gear speeds.
Also, engine braking does not wear out the clutch. It's fully engaged.
Also, engine braking does not wear out the clutch. It's fully engaged.
Evidently, according to multiple responses here, doing it in 1st is not recommended. It worked fine in my '94 Jeep Cherokee, but I guess its just not for 'Vettes. You folks have nearly convinced me that it's easier to just use that middle pedal than go through the hassle of matching revs, but lemme tell you it makes you feel good when you can get it matched perfectly where your passenger couldn't even feel the clutch engage.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,283
Likes: 16
From: Katy Tx
Not only is it not as hard on the synchros if you match revs, but it's easier on the clutch too. If you've got it matched just right, the clutch won't see any wear -- it just engages, and then the engine will start to slow the car.
Evidently, according to multiple responses here, doing it in 1st is not recommended. It worked fine in my '94 Jeep Cherokee, but I guess its just not for 'Vettes. You folks have nearly convinced me that it's easier to just use that middle pedal than go through the hassle of matching revs, but lemme tell you it makes you feel good when you can get it matched perfectly where your passenger couldn't even feel the clutch engage.
Evidently, according to multiple responses here, doing it in 1st is not recommended. It worked fine in my '94 Jeep Cherokee, but I guess its just not for 'Vettes. You folks have nearly convinced me that it's easier to just use that middle pedal than go through the hassle of matching revs, but lemme tell you it makes you feel good when you can get it matched perfectly where your passenger couldn't even feel the clutch engage.
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Team Owner
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 22,830
Likes: 13
From: Columbus Ohio
CI 3-4, 8-9-10 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '06-'08-'10
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 877
Likes: 4
From: Nouvelle Ecosse
Not only is it not as hard on the synchros if you match revs, but it's easier on the clutch too. If you've got it matched just right, the clutch won't see any wear -- it just engages, and then the engine will start to slow the car.
Evidently, according to multiple responses here, doing it in 1st is not recommended. It worked fine in my '94 Jeep Cherokee, but I guess its just not for 'Vettes. You folks have nearly convinced me that it's easier to just use that middle pedal than go through the hassle of matching revs, but lemme tell you it makes you feel good when you can get it matched perfectly where your passenger couldn't even feel the clutch engage.
Evidently, according to multiple responses here, doing it in 1st is not recommended. It worked fine in my '94 Jeep Cherokee, but I guess its just not for 'Vettes. You folks have nearly convinced me that it's easier to just use that middle pedal than go through the hassle of matching revs, but lemme tell you it makes you feel good when you can get it matched perfectly where your passenger couldn't even feel the clutch engage.
All the nay sayers probably can't drive in town without using the clutch (except for stop light take offs) either....
I downshift all the time, and drive without using the cluch(due to the fact I need one from the previous owner riding it all the time)
Anyone who's ever driven a commercial truck professionally will understand the merits of braking, downshifting and rev matching.
Cars are the same.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
DON'T FOR ONE MINUTE think your C5 trans is that indestructible. One day you will play a little too hard and you will be the next guy complaining that his low mileage MN6 /MN12 tranny is GRINDING into 3rd or 4th or your STUCK in some gear.
Our T-56's have weaknesses.
I have a TRANSZILLA T-60/60 ready to bolt into my 02 Z. If you want to play and play HARD, get ya some!!!! It's just about bulletproof!!!!
BC
Last edited by Bill Curlee; Jul 27, 2010 at 10:49 PM.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,628
Likes: 15
From: Seattle WA
They are both manual transmissions, are they not? They both have a clutch and a shift lever, don't they? To say they are not the same in ANY way, shape, or form, is completely ridiculous.
The main differences between car and commercial truck transmissions is the latter's lack of synchros, and the number of gears. If you know how to drive a vehicle without synchros, such as a semi or an older manual car of any variety (pre-1950's), you can drive a synchronized transmission the same way. It isn't really harder on the trans, and if you match revs WITH using the clutch, you can actually reduce the wear on your synchros (they don't have to work as hard to synchronize because you've matched them up already).
Please, don't say things that are entirely untrue.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,150
Likes: 6
From: NS
That was my point as well.The OP mentioned downshifting to 1st... Can't say that's a good idea. 1st gear is just too low. Really only needed when you're stopped.
Safety Car
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,237
Likes: 11
From: Lacombe Louisiana
Sorry but a heavy duty trans with no syncros is not in any way even simular to a car trans with syncros.look at a a break down of the internals of both and you will see the huge differences.30 years as an ASE Master tech with heavy duty truck status(which is a seperate classification btw)pretty much gives me the experience to let you know you are wrong.You may as well say an auto trans is the same also as it has different gears and clutches and moves the car down the road.Many heavy duty truck transmissions now use planetaries in place of gears to change ratios.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,628
Likes: 15
From: Seattle WA
I maintain that to say that they are not the same in any way, shape, or form is incorrect. I would say the same thing about a manual and an automatic transmission; they are the same in many ways, often have the same shape, and put into the same place (form) as a manual transmission.
Again, I would like to say that if you can drive a transmission without synchros, you can drive a transmission WITH synchros better than someone who can't drive a trans without them. Less wear on the trans, etc.
Again, I would like to say that if you can drive a transmission without synchros, you can drive a transmission WITH synchros better than someone who can't drive a trans without them. Less wear on the trans, etc.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,628
Likes: 15
From: Seattle WA
That was me, actually. I used it in my '94 Jeep Cherokee all the time to slow to nearly a stop, but the thing had a 5 speed and 4.56 gears so it wasn't going anywhere fast at the time. I have only done it twice in my Corvette due to the 'Vette's screaming at me to stop (siren sound), and thought I'd bring it up in here as to whether that sound was normal. I certainly didn't intend to get into a discussion about whether downshifting to slow the vehicle was a good idea, or if a light duty and heavy duty trans were 'at all' similar, but that's kind of how it goes on this forum..
