Is this normal?
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,628
Likes: 15
From: Seattle WA
Is this normal?
So, as any good driver with a manual transmission does, I shift down a gear or three, blip the throttle, and let the car slow itself down from there. We all know about compression braking so I won't continue on that.
However, in 1st gear and only 1st gear, there is a pronounced whistle or whine heard when it's slowing me down near a stop. If I'm throwing it in first where it's up near 5k RPMs, it sounds like a (loud!) firetruck siren in my car. The pitch and volume goes down with speed/RPM, and it never makes any noise when starting out, only when compression braking.
Is this normal, is my Vette possessed with the spirit of a fire engine, or am I breaking something?
However, in 1st gear and only 1st gear, there is a pronounced whistle or whine heard when it's slowing me down near a stop. If I'm throwing it in first where it's up near 5k RPMs, it sounds like a (loud!) firetruck siren in my car. The pitch and volume goes down with speed/RPM, and it never makes any noise when starting out, only when compression braking.
Is this normal, is my Vette possessed with the spirit of a fire engine, or am I breaking something?
Last edited by Trios; Jul 26, 2010 at 02:32 PM.
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Downshifting to 1st gear at 5 grand is certain to put alot of undue stress on your transmission and your clutch. It definitely should be noisy at that RPM level. Why not just use the brakes and downshift at a more reasonable RPM level?
Safety Car
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,237
Likes: 11
From: Lacombe Louisiana
Good driver???? Those things went out many years ago with the advent of disc brakes! You no longer need to use"engine" braking and the blip you mention was used many years ago before modern transmissions and syncros.You are stressing your trans with your out dated habits!
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: Flowery Branch Ga
Could I suggest to not downshift at all to slow you down. And first gear
should never be used on the way down at all. For starting off only but never to downshift. It's cheaper to buy brake pads instead of a clutch.
should never be used on the way down at all. For starting off only but never to downshift. It's cheaper to buy brake pads instead of a clutch.
Tech Contributor
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From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
HOLY SMOKES!
Down Shifting to FIRST is very hard on the tranny. YEP, it SURE WILL WHISTLE!
It will also do it if you accidently try to shift from third at 6000 rpm back to second. 
May I strongly recommend that you discontinue doing that. Your synchros are doing OVERTIME trying to sync up first gear.
Down Shifting to FIRST is very hard on the tranny. YEP, it SURE WILL WHISTLE! It will also do it if you accidently try to shift from third at 6000 rpm back to second. May I strongly recommend that you discontinue doing that. Your synchros are doing OVERTIME trying to sync up first gear.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 23,480
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From: East Meadow NY
St. Jude Donor '12
HOLY SMOKES! Down Shifting to FIRST is very hard on the tranny. YEP, it SURE WILL WHISTLE! It will also do it if you accidently try to shift from third at 6000 rpm back to second.
May I strongly recommend that you discontinue doing that. Your synchros are doing OVERTIME trying to sync up first gear.
Down Shifting to FIRST is very hard on the tranny. YEP, it SURE WILL WHISTLE! It will also do it if you accidently try to shift from third at 6000 rpm back to second. May I strongly recommend that you discontinue doing that. Your synchros are doing OVERTIME trying to sync up first gear.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,628
Likes: 15
From: Seattle WA
Couple points:
I have only done this (shifted to 1st at above 3k or so) twice because of the sound it makes. I assumed it was bad, and stopped, but thought I'd ask here anyhow.
I don't feel I am being hard on my syncros so much as perhaps my clutch, as getting INTO 1st gear isn't a problem when I blip the throttle. It also doesn't make the 'siren' until I've let the clutch and throttle out entirely and the engine is slowing me down (no sound when shifting). Certainly the trans is seeing hard work when I have done that, but I figured if it can handle the power one way it ought to be okay the other. I may be wrong on this.
Based upon the above comments, I will use compression braking sparingly from now on, and no longer in 1st.
I have only done this (shifted to 1st at above 3k or so) twice because of the sound it makes. I assumed it was bad, and stopped, but thought I'd ask here anyhow.
I don't feel I am being hard on my syncros so much as perhaps my clutch, as getting INTO 1st gear isn't a problem when I blip the throttle. It also doesn't make the 'siren' until I've let the clutch and throttle out entirely and the engine is slowing me down (no sound when shifting). Certainly the trans is seeing hard work when I have done that, but I figured if it can handle the power one way it ought to be okay the other. I may be wrong on this.
Based upon the above comments, I will use compression braking sparingly from now on, and no longer in 1st.
Last edited by Trios; Jul 26, 2010 at 02:33 PM.
Resident moron
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: Assachusetts
I'll have to try it sometime and get back to you. I never downshift into 1st, even when racing - unless I'm stopped or going <5mph of course. Got no traction in 1st so I'd rather bog it in 2nd at low speed than annihilate the tires in 1st.
Edit: as far as everyone throwing a fit about the evils of downshifting, as long as you at rev matching you are mostly fine. Does it cause more wear? Probably. Is it more fun? For sure! Does it really matter? Probably not.
For the record I use compression braking all the time. I downshift for exit ramps, coming up on stop signs/red lights, everything. It's fun and it puts you in the correct gear should you actually have to use the gas. My DD is my 98 Camaro SS, I've been doing this for over 100k miles over 13 years (lots of short trips/commutes). Original clutch and tranny, no problems. It's seen a LOT of hard driving too. Having said that, I do try to avoid downshifting to 1st mostly.
Dope
Edit: as far as everyone throwing a fit about the evils of downshifting, as long as you at rev matching you are mostly fine. Does it cause more wear? Probably. Is it more fun? For sure! Does it really matter? Probably not.
For the record I use compression braking all the time. I downshift for exit ramps, coming up on stop signs/red lights, everything. It's fun and it puts you in the correct gear should you actually have to use the gas. My DD is my 98 Camaro SS, I've been doing this for over 100k miles over 13 years (lots of short trips/commutes). Original clutch and tranny, no problems. It's seen a LOT of hard driving too. Having said that, I do try to avoid downshifting to 1st mostly.
Dope
Last edited by Dope; Jul 26, 2010 at 02:30 PM.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
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From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Good accurate down shifting to match gears is a very acceptable practice. I also do it when I want to play. I have to agree with DPOE.
HOWEVER,,,,,, Down shifting to First IS NOT a very common practice as it does cause accelerated wear and tear on the trans. I would refrain from that practice. I would also recommend changing the trannt fluid at a more advanced schedule than normal if you a lot of down shifting as the synchros will wear at a higher rate and the oil will get dirty a LOT quicker. Dirty oil will lead to rough up shifting.
HOWEVER,,,,,,
Down shifting to First IS NOT a very common practice as it does cause accelerated wear and tear on the trans. I would refrain from that practice. I would also recommend changing the trannt fluid at a more advanced schedule than normal if you a lot of down shifting as the synchros will wear at a higher rate and the oil will get dirty a LOT quicker. Dirty oil will lead to rough up shifting.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 21,325
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From: small town in S.E Pa. PA
St. Jude Donor '03-'04
Oh my
Like Ive said many many times.. 1960's thinking with a New Millennium design. So many people trash their car using methods taught by their grandfather. This isn't you grandfather's 1960 Buick.
People need to get their head out of the 60's
Melting Slicks
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From: Near Charlotte NC
Instructor
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From: ramona california
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2010
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From: Harrisburg Pa.
so what are the people saying that warn against downshifting? approach a red light or stop sign put it in neutral and coast in? leave off the throttle and push the clutch in to coast in? lug the engine down to idle before de-clutching or going to neutral when stopping? exit the interstate and just ride the brakes around the ramp till you see what gear you need to pull away at the end? if you 'blip' the throttle, or more correctly, match the rpms to the next lower gear when downshifting while slowing down you are driving your car in the gear that will properly match the rpms to your speed and are doing no damage to anything. it's when you downshift and just let the clutch drag when letting it back out without matching the rpms to the lower gear that you cause premature wear or damage to the drivetrain components. it's why you buy a stick shift anyway, more actively involved driving experience. automatics are for those who don't want to shift. 
ps: don't downshift into first gear though unless you are almost stopped and need it to pull away.
ps: don't downshift into first gear though unless you are almost stopped and need it to pull away.
Last edited by dklowrider; Jul 26, 2010 at 10:50 PM.
Tech Contributor
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From: Wylie TX --> Less is More, except under the hood !
My thoughts:
- I know how to change my brake pads and pads are cheap.
- I do not know how to change out a clutch (and its expensive to buy, and to get replaced).
Therefore....
- I throw it in neutral, and use my brakes every time I come to a stop.
- It also helps save gas because I throw it in neutral so early and coast to a stop light.
If i'm really performance driving , then of course i down shift before entering a turn, or another situation.
Stopping for a stop light there is no need to downshift though.
Toque
- I know how to change my brake pads and pads are cheap.
- I do not know how to change out a clutch (and its expensive to buy, and to get replaced).
Therefore....
- I throw it in neutral, and use my brakes every time I come to a stop.
- It also helps save gas because I throw it in neutral so early and coast to a stop light.
If i'm really performance driving , then of course i down shift before entering a turn, or another situation.
Stopping for a stop light there is no need to downshift though.
Toque
Last edited by Toque; Jul 26, 2010 at 10:54 PM.
Tech Contributor
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From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Lets see if we can put this into perspective. First off the DONTS:
- Don't down shift to first unless you almost stopped or stopped.
- DON'T use down shifting to slow or stop your car (unless you loose your primary brakes)
DO's
-Rev match to go to the next lower gear.
- Down shift if you want. Just don't over do it. Brakes work very well.
- STOP LIGHT: Push the clutch in come to a stop, shift to first, go when the light turns green. If you don't have to stop at the light, shift to some gear (other than first) and let the clutch out and go.
I don't believe anyone is saying you cant down shift or rev match. Theres a time and a place for both. The transmission was not designed to do it all the time.
BC
- Don't down shift to first unless you almost stopped or stopped.
- DON'T use down shifting to slow or stop your car (unless you loose your primary brakes)
DO's
-Rev match to go to the next lower gear.
- Down shift if you want. Just don't over do it. Brakes work very well.
- STOP LIGHT: Push the clutch in come to a stop, shift to first, go when the light turns green. If you don't have to stop at the light, shift to some gear (other than first) and let the clutch out and go.
I don't believe anyone is saying you cant down shift or rev match. Theres a time and a place for both. The transmission was not designed to do it all the time.
BC
Last edited by Bill Curlee; Jul 26, 2010 at 11:03 PM.