Earlier today the whitehouse approved an increase to 15% ethanol in all of our gas. Previously the limit was 10%. Here's the news release:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/EPA-ap...95536.html?x=0

I've heard a lot of complaints about ethanol in gas causing premature engine wear/failure and just wanted to hear what people thought about the increase in ethanol content. Obviously I'd rather support farmers growing corn in the US than oil sheiks from Saudi Arabia, but not at the expense of a significantly increased chance of engine failure. Is this really ok for our cars and if not will there still be a way to get ethanol-free gas?

 

I had to put in a new fuel pump all because I put gas with 15% ethanol when I had a BMW. It cost me about 780 apparently they only take up to 10% and the warranty didnt cover the guy at the dealership told me that this was huge problem alot of people were having

 

been 15% for two years now.

 

I thought it was up to 10%

 

Some Facts on this issue, as I understand them. The increase from 10% to 15% is purely a political issue at the expense of taxpayers. When ethanol was first introduced into the gas a couple of years ago, the government promised manufacturers of the ethanol a minmum number of gallons each year supported by up to a 50 cents per gallon subsidy. If you have noticed our consumption of gas overall as a country has gone done significantly, due to recession, cars getting better mileage, etc. With that consumption down the number of gallons of ethanol being purchased is therefore down also. The only way they can get the sales back up to the originally promised number of gallons is to increase the % up to 15%.
I really didn't mean to turn this into a political discussion, but felt that it was important to lay to groundwork for what is being done to us. Anyone who has ever run a car with any amount of alcohol whether it be ethanol or methanol knows the following:
1. Alcohol is extremely corrosive and eats away at all fuel components.
2. The higher the % of alcohol is in the gas, the worse your mpg will be
3. It really does not burn "Cleaner" like they say. In virtually all studies done it actually burns dirtier.
4. It does not mix well with gasoline and will come out of suspension with the gasoline. Samples taken at tanks of some stations have shown up to 75-85% ethanol when it was supposed to be only 10%.

The above being said, there are a couple of car manufacturers who are considering voiding the warranties on new cars fuel systems and engines if this 15% ethanol really happens.

 

I recieved a company wide email saying the same thing yesterday...

btw, I just typed all this in so the typos are likely my fault and not my source...

 

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-g...5-ethanol.html

 

This probably isn't going to happen very fast. The Ethanol producers and the politicians that support them are not happy because of the way it was done. For a large number of pre-2007 vehicles the 15% ethanol mixture isn't useful and can damage the fuel their systems. That means retailers would have to provide separate fuel sources for the cars that can use the new mix and ones that can't. Those retailers are not going to any extra expense to install separate tanks and new pumps to satisfy both groups. Since the post 2007 cars can run on the 10% mix nobody is going to spend the money to change over. The other issue will be the increased cost of the 15% fuel which would lead car owners of newer cars to choose the 10% mix. Economics is against this happening unless something changes. My 03 Tahoe is a flex fuel vehicle that can run on E85 and my Vette and Malibu are both 08s so the only thing that would bother me is the extra cost of the 15% mix if they decide to force the issue.

Bill

 

Thank you for that post and bringing this to our attention. Just went to a Union 76 station here in southern California and talked to the fuel delivery truck driver that was there. He said starting next month that's all he is going to be delivering, the 15% blend! And I can't use that in my 99. Even owners manual says don't use more then 10%!

 

Has anyone ever used the E85 fuel in their Vettes???

 

Aren't these the same yahoos who have declared the breath you exhale to be a pollutant due to CO2?

 

What a crock of crap. Sooner or later they will just ban gasoline period. They know they need to do it but also know it will put millions of people out of work...
I can tune to 15% ethanol no problem, but for most people in the family cars its a **** of crap with worse mileage and if they drive older cars (like anything older than 2007) its gonna fugg up their fuels systems eventually and the govt knows this. Do they care...NOPE..

The EPA says the E15 is for new vehicles, so they better have E10 for older ones still available as a choice. I think if they dont then WE the people need to sue the EPA. This isnt going to happen soon though as many things need to happen before it does. The comment above that a fuel delivery driver said thats all hes going to be delivering next month is a crock of BS.

The more ethanol in the gas the cheaper it should be...The Chevron down the street from me sells E85 for much cheaper than the E10.

Some boat docks have no ethanol in it yet but the ones that do it really messes up the engines in boats.

 

Where have you heard it is wrecking boat engines? I have had 3 different boats over the last 11 years and they have all had e10 in them. My first boat was an 85 and had that for 7 years with no problems. I think this is getting blown out of proportion. Yes there are some drawbacks, but I know of many performance cars converted to e85 locally that have no problem with alcohol degredation of components. Just change the injectors to flow more and make sure the pump is large enough to keep up and thats it. The problems are the lack of fuel mileage and the wasted money on a subsodized fuel that costs more to produce than to import real gasoline. I dont like imported fuel as much as the next person, but I hate wasteful subsodized spending even more.

 

What type of boat motor you have? V8/v6 auto engine or outboard? Do Internet search on boat motors and ethanol damage. http://www.evinrude-parts.com/boat_e...recaution.html

It did our outboard V8 in, in less than 6 months and was completely attributed to the ethanol even tho I originally doubted it but manufacturer said thats what did it in.

When MTBE came out everyone was praising it cept our lab! We tested first tanker load into California loaded with it. We knew that day it was crap, dangerous, ate seals up, contaminated ground water, ate through gas station storage tanks but oh no the EPA wanted it, had to have it said it was fine and all that political BS that it was needed and very safe...Idiots learned their lesson on that the hard way. So here they go on their ethanol mentality now....I wouldnt trust the EPA to get anything right other than looking after their best interests and jobs.

I converted to E85 on my Vette and it ran great so no complaints other than it ran way too cold coolant wise because of it. I dont run it anymore because its too hard to come by as hardly anyone sells it around here.

 

That boat had a 351 ford windsor, it was in a ski nautique. I can look up stuff on the internet, it doesnt make it true. It doesnt make it false either. All I know is I have had several boats that all ran on E10 with no ill effects for years all with their original as delivered fuel systems in place. Same with my supercharged 95 mustang (e10), same with my friends 05 SC mustang GT making 538 to the wheels with upgraded pump and injectors factory lines and rails(E85), same with my friends 91 GT 347 boss block making 720whp, nothing factory, but not specifically made for E85 (e85). I hate ethanol too, but I am not going to spread these rumors about how it kills everything it touches. In MN, we have been forced to use this stuff for 15 years now. I havent had any failure in any boat, motorcycle, lawnmower, car, race engine or any other gasoline driven engine of my own or anyone I know due to any ethanol in any fuel tank, PERIOD.

 

Hey you can believe whatever you want about ethanol. I bet you thought MTBE was fine and dandy too when you were using it...LOL...

 

It isnt about what I BELIEVE. I know I havent had a problem resulting from the use of ethanol in my engines. I have never had a fuel sustem problem or any issue with anything the fuel touches.

I really dont understand whay you are so hardheaded about this subject. I come on here and say I havent had any problems for years in anything I run gasoline in, in a state where E10 is mandated. I dont see the subjective part of that statement. It is my experience I have had and you are trying to discount it like I have never even heard of ethanol blended fuels in my life.

 

Hey guys, I'd be interested in learning more about the pros and cons of Ethanol. Can you guys provide links and resources to the empirical data that supports your guys' views and opinions? Thanks

 

I am on e85 right now (just switched yesterday), you will need a tune and bigger injectors, its good stuff, there are PLENTY (50+) threads on it about guys who have been running it for 2+ YEARS with great results. Search on here, LS1tech.com and HPTuners.com, you will find all the info you will ever need. Here is a thread from 2006, this guy is STILL using E85! - http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/fuelin...r-ls1-e85.html

The crap that you hear that "it will eat your fuel lines" is BS. I am in the process of "fine" tweaking my tune with a wideband and plan to take it back to the same dyno that I have always gone to for my numbers, I will post them soon (in about a week), I am expecting a 10 RWHP increase. I am not using it for power but rather for the smell (I have no cats and pure gas stinks, E85 smells like buttery popcorn) and how it keeps everything clean. Its not my DD so I do not mind paying few extra dollars for it.

 

Two questions. I have a custom tune in the Vette, does the E10 to E15 change require an update to the tune?

On other cars, is this change within the parameters of self correction (trims) or will older cars (such as my wife's BMW) require the computer to be flashed and possibly more fuel flow in the form of larger injectors?