so, i wanted to post the post mortem for the benefit of others. the temperature dropped really hard during the past week, so i didn't take bill up on his offer to work on it myself, but no less thanks. it just got too cold to work on it.

i hauled it to a local pep boys and it turns out there were several semi-guru covette guys who work in the shop. they isolated the problem as the relay under the passenger floorboard. they said this was a common problem in c5's. they greased it up and it seems to be working fine. monday, i'll order a new one (or two). and the planets must have aligned because they didn't charge me. i can't believe i am actually saying this, but props to pep boys. thanks for helping me out.





"Your door may be as simple as disconnecting the connectors and tighting up the female pins.."

i can't tell you how much i have f'd around with that right side door. i'm so fed up with it maybe i'll just cut all the wires and crimp them one by one.

 

I would LOVE to know what relay that they messed with. Which one was it. Take a picture of it if you can. What do you mean by " they greased it up" ?????

Well, I hope they really fixed it.

BC

 

i don't know, is it possible to clean a relay and apply electrical grease?

sorry for the poor pic, but it is both cold and dark out right now.

[are you kidding me corvetteforum? i can't attach an image?]

ok, let's try this. i'm surprised the pic is as good as it is. i shot it in complete darkness, just hoping it would be ok.

12177235 D00 if my eyes are working this evening.

 

uploaded the image to imageshack.

 

Hmmmmm, this is getting interesting,

 

hey guys, i picked up a new relay from the stealership. 45 f_cking dollars gm. can't be more than a $2 part. the guy at the counter even thought it was a rip. and...it wasn't an exact match. the new one has a 5th ground pin. instructions were to trim it off if i have a 4 pin relay. so far, car has started every time since back from pep boys (from 23 degrees cold to full hot after running the heater blowing on it for several hours). i'm going to plug in the new relay as soon as it gets above 32 degrees here. d_mn it is cold and i'm only in pa. can't imagine what it is like for you guys up in mn or nd.

it might be worth knowing where this relay is guys, as it isn't shown in the user's manual. it's not technically part of of the panel under the passenger floor board, but that is where it is located. the pic above is how i got it from the pep boys, so i don't know how it looks in place.

if you turn the key and get nothing, maybe worth banging on this relay in order to get you going.

a great diy would be if there is a way to check this thing and clean it or something, if nothing more than for a way to get home if stranded at long range.

 

Heres your relay. Just find the one with FOUR wires, RED PURPLE, yellow, and yellow/black stripe. Its the one above the BCN to the left

 

thanks bill, what a mess. i'm hoping to swap it out tomorrow.

like i said, my stealership isn't selling the same model number anymore. the new one has five pins and they say cut off the fifth pin if the connector doesn't have a fifth pin. the fifth pin is in the middle and from the diagram is a ground pin. this is how the new relay looks.

-.............-

-......-......-



i think it will be 15 degrees outside with windchill tomorrow. nothing like that for working on a car. :-)

also, is that a relay to the starter or something involved with the vehicle security system?

edit: just ran down to my car and grabbed the relay. updated the pin post.

it is an OMRON 12177233

 

That FIFTH pin doesnt really matter. Just plug it in and forget it. I have a 5 pin in my Z. NO Big deal.

BC

 

the relay does not appear to be serviceable in any way, so when the pep boys guys cleaned and "greased" the contacts, i assume that it was either in the connector or the relay contacts that they did anything. nothing like a $50k car that gets killed by a $2 part. now i am thinking the connector may have just been loose. who knows. :-(

 

thanks bill. :-)

i updated the pin arrangement after running down and getting the relay.

 

a couple of weeks ago, it was dead again. back to pep boys. starter!

it has been fine since. the intermittent nature of this problem is what made it the most frustrating combined with it was a "leaves you stranded" type problem. anyways, just wanted to provide another update.

 

Bet ya it was just the solenoid!!!!!

 

I posted this on another forum but forgot which one so I'll post it here also. I too am having start issues and my codes are P1631 (H) and B2721 (H).

I have noticed that after I insert the key in the ignition and go to ON, if its going to start the SECURITY light will flash a few times then go out but if its NOT going to start, the light keeps flashing. I have tried the spare key and tried cleaning the pellets but still same problem. I havn't tried the "pumping the clutch" trick and listening for the clicking TDR but I thought I'd jump right in and start replacing stuff. I don't know if I should just replace the ignition switch or the TDR or both. Any help would be appreciated as I'm too lazy and have a broken foot to try and crawl around testing things. Thanks in advance.

 

An update on my situation: I pulled the ignition switch out, cleaned it just like BC said, bent the tabs down a little then decided while I have it apart to check the resistance the VATS reader in the ignition was picking up with the key inserted and it reads, consistantly, .302, which is what my pellets resistance is in both keys. So now I'm thinking it may be the TDR? I will pull that and see what I can find on that. Right now we're expecting a freeze and my garage isn't heated so I will wait till it gets warmer. Besides that, with my broken foot its hard to squeeze around the inside of my vette.

 

Aviator I think I have the same problem. Mine is intermittent, sometimes it will crank as soon as I turn the key, and sometimes I will have to fight it for about 5 minutes, but so far I have been able to get it to crank eventually. One of the times my security light stayed on after I got the car to crank and didn't go off until I got where I was going. I do not have a CEL right now and any help will be appreciated.

 

I checked the TDR and all voltages appeared within tolerances so now I'm at a loss. Since I cleaned the ignition and put everything back together, it hasn't failed to start and I've started it probably 40 times so far. I did buy another TDR and installed that just in case there was a problem with the old one so its now a waiting game. Again, I appreciate all the inputs and I certainly appreciate this forum and its wealth of knowledge and help.

 

Try opening the door, pull back the rubber grommet, then wiggle the wiring harness a bit. i have had this work for me.. There is usually a bad ground in the connector just past the door. Hope you get it fixed.

 

After a long work assignment, I'm finally back and was able to work on the car some more. After all I had done, cleaned the ignition switch, checked the resistance of the key (3.009) and what the ignition switch was sending to the TDR (3.016), buying a new TDR (just in case and it was only $15 at Autozone), I thought I had it fixed but the other day it left me stranded for half an hour so when I got home I rechecked everything, including the TDR voltages. (codes were P1631, B2721, & two U codes, dont remember which ones but they're just lost communication with XXX codes) The red wire read 11.95 volts (battery volts), when I turned the ignition switch to start the yellow wire read 11.95 volts, but when I checked the purple wire during the start sequence, it showed no volts so I thought the new TDR was bad so I put the old one back in and the same thing, no start voltage to the starter from the purple wire. I then bought another TDR and I got the same thing, no voltage from the purple wire. By that point I was pretty much dumbfounded. I then went ahead and jumped the red (bat volts) and the purple and the starter engaged, but with the ignition switch on, the car ran only for a couple seconds then shut down, I'm assuming due to lack of fuel.

I decided to do one more check, that of the clutch safety switch. I disconnected it and jumpered the two wires and the car started right up. I have started it about 20 times since then with no problems except sometimes the SECURITY light comes on and stays on, a couple times it came on after driving a few blocks and stayed on. I'll give it a few more days of driving and see if it starts acting up again but if it doesn't, looks like its just a sticky clutch safety switch. But I'd sure like to know why the security light does what it does. Does anyone have a wiring diagram for the security light? The wiring diagram I got from the forum on the starter electric system doesn't show it. Anyway, this sure is getting old and I miss driving the beast and my wife misses riding in it, lol.

 

I have the schematic. I cannot post it because I cannot use photo bucket at work. I will post it around 8pm eastern for you.