Handling question
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
From: Port Orange Florida
Handling question
Maybe I'm just not used to the car. I drive a GMC 3500 diesel dually all day long. When I drive the Vette 2002 I feel like it is wandering, the slightest deviation in the road and it feels like the car reacts to it. I looked at the suspenion and steering linkage and the shocks and don't see anything obvious. Is it me ? Or is there something else I should look for?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,789
Likes: 8
From: Myrtle Beach SC
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
Somewhat normal it is called trammeling. Because the steering is tighter and the wide tires it does not drive like a boat but reacts to road variations. One thing that some people do is get the alignment done with 1 degree of toe in it helps a little. When I had my alignment done the guy set it to the inner limits but still in the green range on his Hunter. It did help quite a bit but I still get it from some roads.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,754
Likes: 167
From: Youngsville North Carolina
In addition:
Hows your tires?
Especially the fronts that were worn smooth on the inside edge
Mine were pretty bad and when I replaced them this trammeling was greatly reduced...
Hows your tires?
Especially the fronts that were worn smooth on the inside edge
Mine were pretty bad and when I replaced them this trammeling was greatly reduced...
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
From: Port Orange Florida
Somewhat normal it is called trammeling. Because the steering is tighter and the wide tires it does not drive like a boat but reacts to road variations. One thing that some people do is get the alignment done with 1 degree of toe in it helps a little. When I had my alignment done the guy set it to the inner limits but still in the green range on his Hunter. It did help quite a bit but I still get it from some roads.
Thanks for steering me toward the alignment issue..
Don
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
DON
THANK YOU for up-DATING your post with the cause and solution of the problem. You would be AMAZED at how many posters never do this and the end result and solution to the problem are never known.
THANKS AGAIN!!!!
Bill
THANK YOU for up-DATING your post with the cause and solution of the problem. You would be AMAZED at how many posters never do this and the end result and solution to the problem are never known.
THANKS AGAIN!!!!
Bill
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
From: Port Orange Florida
Bill, Hope my experience with this problem helps others. I gotta admit I should have got the alignment done a long time ago. I was just putting up with the tammeling, and hating the way the car drove... Main reason for putting it off was finding a shop I trusted..
Don
Don
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,528
Likes: 752
From: South Dakota
I have been looking at an alignment also.
What values did they set the Camber to? I was reading that if it was set to Zero it would have the best tire wear, and if it was set to the limit or the Z06 spec (more inboard at the top) there would be more tire wear on the inboard edges, but might be better handling.
If you can post the values for Toe, Camber, and Caster it would help to see what worked.
Thanks.
What values did they set the Camber to? I was reading that if it was set to Zero it would have the best tire wear, and if it was set to the limit or the Z06 spec (more inboard at the top) there would be more tire wear on the inboard edges, but might be better handling.
If you can post the values for Toe, Camber, and Caster it would help to see what worked.
Thanks.
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Instructor
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
From: Vallejo CA
Just an FYI the effect is called tram-lining not trammeling. Like when the wheels follow tracks embedded in the streets for trams & light rail systems? They're all terms that have been coined over the years no biggie. 
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11,152
Likes: 890
From: South Western Ontario
My was set as follows, left then right listed
F Caster 6.6*, 6.9*
F Camber -0.4*
F toe 0.1*, 0.1* - this is toe in
R camber -0.6*, -0.3*
R toe -0.1*, -0.1* - this is toe out
$100 at the GM dealer which came recommended for performace cars.
The rear camber really should be equal. Probably got a little lazy and didn't set it. Get the camber and toe set equal both sides front and rear. Forget the "within spec" crap if anyone tries to pull that. More camber will equal better cornering with more inner wear so what you want depends on where and how you drive. I do mostly highway driving so I'd very fine with trading the small cornering benefit for longer tire life.
I believe the idea behind the rear toe-out is that under power the wheels tend to toe themselves back in a bit. No idea if it's true or not but it's working fine that way for me. The car drives straight down the road and the tire wear has been very good. I've got over 40k miles on the rear PS2's and they're just hitting the wear bars on the inside edge but still above them on the outside edge worn evenly across the tread face. They are due for replacement very soon. To soon to know the final wear on the fronts but they are looking very good so far.
F Caster 6.6*, 6.9*
F Camber -0.4*
F toe 0.1*, 0.1* - this is toe in
R camber -0.6*, -0.3*
R toe -0.1*, -0.1* - this is toe out
$100 at the GM dealer which came recommended for performace cars.
The rear camber really should be equal. Probably got a little lazy and didn't set it. Get the camber and toe set equal both sides front and rear. Forget the "within spec" crap if anyone tries to pull that. More camber will equal better cornering with more inner wear so what you want depends on where and how you drive. I do mostly highway driving so I'd very fine with trading the small cornering benefit for longer tire life.
I believe the idea behind the rear toe-out is that under power the wheels tend to toe themselves back in a bit. No idea if it's true or not but it's working fine that way for me. The car drives straight down the road and the tire wear has been very good. I've got over 40k miles on the rear PS2's and they're just hitting the wear bars on the inside edge but still above them on the outside edge worn evenly across the tread face. They are due for replacement very soon. To soon to know the final wear on the fronts but they are looking very good so far.
Last edited by lionelhutz; Jul 3, 2012 at 05:45 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 87,367
Likes: 1,593
From: Western NY
Wouldn't be the first time.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 121
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From: Port Orange Florida
Before
Front camber left -0.7 right -0.1
front caster left +7.5 right +7.4
front toe left 1/64" in right 3/32" out for a total of 7/64" in
rear camber left -0.6 right -0.0
rear toe left 3/32" out right 1/4" out
After
Front camber left -0.4 right -0.4
front caster left +7.9 right +8.2
front toe left 1/16" in right 1/16" in for a total of 1/8" in
rear camber left -0.4 right -0.4
rear toe left 1/32" in right 1/32" in
These are the readings off the print out the shop gave me.. He said he put the right caster high for the large crown in the roads here in Florida. And I had him road force balance the tires.. Which is a balance I would highly recommend for any car.. Had him do it on my 06 HHR and now on the Vette, both ride smooth as silk..
Hope this is useful..
Don
Front camber left -0.7 right -0.1
front caster left +7.5 right +7.4
front toe left 1/64" in right 3/32" out for a total of 7/64" in
rear camber left -0.6 right -0.0
rear toe left 3/32" out right 1/4" out
After
Front camber left -0.4 right -0.4
front caster left +7.9 right +8.2
front toe left 1/16" in right 1/16" in for a total of 1/8" in
rear camber left -0.4 right -0.4
rear toe left 1/32" in right 1/32" in
These are the readings off the print out the shop gave me.. He said he put the right caster high for the large crown in the roads here in Florida. And I had him road force balance the tires.. Which is a balance I would highly recommend for any car.. Had him do it on my 06 HHR and now on the Vette, both ride smooth as silk..
Hope this is useful..
Don
Last edited by dfp215; Jul 4, 2012 at 06:39 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,528
Likes: 752
From: South Dakota
Thanks for the before/after readings.
I am trying to learn what issues people have had with different settings, and what they did to correct them.
I was also curious if you saw any inside tire wear on the left front tire with that much camber in the before settings.
I am trying to learn what issues people have had with different settings, and what they did to correct them.
I was also curious if you saw any inside tire wear on the left front tire with that much camber in the before settings.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,789
Likes: 8
From: Myrtle Beach SC
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
http://www.vbandp.com/index.php?opti...man&Itemid=170
Click on alignment and you will find the best answers for your needs.
Click on alignment and you will find the best answers for your needs.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
From: Port Orange Florida
No, oddly enough the tires are wearing pretty good. They were brand new Goodyear run flats on it when I bought the car. The rears are Nitto 555 , not the drag radial. Which were brand new also. I have only put 11,000 miles on it in the two years I've had it.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,642
Likes: 1
From: Ca.
http://www.vbandp.com/index.php?opti...man&Itemid=170
Click on alignment and you will find the best answers for your needs.
Click on alignment and you will find the best answers for your needs.