Column shaft ground through brake line?
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 167
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From: Irvine CA
Column shaft ground through brake line?
I have had an unusual thing happen to my 2001 C5. Directly under the alternator is the end of the column shaft where it attaches to a cylinder(not sure what this is) by way of a "u" type joint and a medium size bolt. Well the head of that bolt had worn on one of my brake lines causing a hole and brake fluid to leak out. Obviously a major problem since it is a rear brake line and will a new section to be spliced in or alternatively pay for an expensive new rear line. Too bad it wasn't the front line since it's easier/cheaper to replace.
QUESTION: My brake lines are where they should be and held together by the factory clamp. Are the C5 tollerances so tight that this can happen for no apparent reason. The shaft is not loose but it really rubs against those lines. Anyone have a similar story or explanation? I REALLY need the brakes.
Thanks,
-Dave
QUESTION: My brake lines are where they should be and held together by the factory clamp. Are the C5 tollerances so tight that this can happen for no apparent reason. The shaft is not loose but it really rubs against those lines. Anyone have a similar story or explanation? I REALLY need the brakes.
Thanks,
-Dave
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,471
Likes: 1,171
From: Dyer, IN
I have had an unusual thing happen to my 2001 C5. Directly under the alternator is the end of the column shaft where it attaches to a cylinder(not sure what this is) by way of a "u" type joint and a medium size bolt. Well the head of that bolt had worn on one of my brake lines causing a hole and brake fluid to leak out. Obviously a major problem since it is a rear brake line and will a new section to be spliced in or alternatively pay for an expensive new rear line. Too bad it wasn't the front line since it's easier/cheaper to replace.
QUESTION: My brake lines are where they should be and held together by the factory clamp. Are the C5 tollerances so tight that this can happen for no apparent reason. The shaft is not loose but it really rubs against those lines. Anyone have a similar story or explanation? I REALLY need the brakes.
Thanks,
-Dave
QUESTION: My brake lines are where they should be and held together by the factory clamp. Are the C5 tollerances so tight that this can happen for no apparent reason. The shaft is not loose but it really rubs against those lines. Anyone have a similar story or explanation? I REALLY need the brakes.
Thanks,
-Dave
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
NEVER seen or heard of this issue on any other C5. Ive done numerous header and or cam installs and have never had this issue.
You either have a brake line position issue and there not really in the OEM location or the bushings on the rack are HOSED allowing the rack to shift to one side! Hows your steering wheel alignment. Is it dead nuts straight when you going straight????
Pictures of the issue would really help diagnose the issue..
BC
You either have a brake line position issue and there not really in the OEM location or the bushings on the rack are HOSED allowing the rack to shift to one side! Hows your steering wheel alignment. Is it dead nuts straight when you going straight????
Pictures of the issue would really help diagnose the issue..
BC
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 167
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From: Irvine CA
I was wondering about the alignment of the column shaft myself. Is the rack the cylindrical part that the column shaft bolts onto (location is below the alternator). The brake lines are tight against the sidewall so there is no place for them to go but the steering shaft/bolt head shouldn't be able to reach the brake lines. The car did steer a little off as I recall but not enough that it concerned me as I need new rubber. That said, I have never experienced a worn bushing. Would that bushing be in that cylinder? I will try to post a photo but have not had good luck getting photos on here.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2003
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From: Irvine CA
Column shaft ground through brake line?
Thanks Allvette for posting photos. I figured out how to post photos and here they are.. As you can see the bolt holding the steering shaft to the rack/pinion has groud a significant hole in the rear brake line.. which my mechanic (Corvette Mike in Anaheim/Carl) tells me he will have to use a flairing tool to splice in a new section of brake line..He says it will take 8-hours labor because he has to remove not only the alternator but also the exhaust manifold and obviously my LG long tube header in order to get the tube-flairing tool down there.
Question:
1) Isn't there a simplier/cheaper way to do this?...there has to be a smaller flairing tool that doesn't require the removal of my exhaust manifold and header (lots of labor cost here)..
2) Why did this happen? Allvette your clearances are tight but not as tight as mine...my brake lines are all in the "bracket" holding them where they should be..but clearly they stick out to far I think?
3) Is my steering shaft supposed to be that "bent"? It drives fine.
Thanks,
Dave
Question:
1) Isn't there a simplier/cheaper way to do this?...there has to be a smaller flairing tool that doesn't require the removal of my exhaust manifold and header (lots of labor cost here)..
2) Why did this happen? Allvette your clearances are tight but not as tight as mine...my brake lines are all in the "bracket" holding them where they should be..but clearly they stick out to far I think?
3) Is my steering shaft supposed to be that "bent"? It drives fine.
Thanks,
Dave
Last edited by MagRed01Atty; Apr 6, 2011 at 11:07 PM. Reason: photos didn't show up
Tech Contributor
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 41,058
Likes: 9,820
From: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Has your steering rack come loose? This can happen if the two bolts that hold in place have come out. I know this can happen since it happened to me. The rack will move back and forth but it should also give you some weird steering feel. My car didn't like turning left after the last bolt fell out. I would have to crank in a half turn of the wheel to make a gentle left turn on the highway that used to take small movement to the left.
Bill
Bill
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
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From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
You need to check the bolts and bushings that secure the rack to the front cradle. On the passengers side the bushing fits in between two aluminum tabs. With the car on the ground, Have someone rotate the steering wheel slightly LEFT & RIGHT from center and see if there is ANY movement of the rack. There should be NONE!!! If the rack moves, you have a serious issue.
The bushings are RUBBER with a metal sleeve in the center. Those bushings can and do wear out.
Bill
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Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 167
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From: Irvine CA
No movement of the rack/pinion while turning the wheel back and forth. The brake lines look a little too faned out to me though? Should they stick out that far? No mechanic has ever had a reason to fiddle with them. AA put in my supercharger and that didn't involve moving brake lines. What do you think about the whole having to remove exhaust manifold in order to fix/flair the brake tube/lines? Seems like you should be able to get at it.
Racer
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 418
Likes: 28
From: Evansville IN
70's and 80's Chevy trucks in our area were always rusting the lines alone the frame.
We replaced a complete fuel line on a Buick Riviera one time for just that reason. The line cost over 100 bucks but we didn't have to take the car apart to fix the leak!
Just a suggestion maybe....
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 167
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From: Irvine CA
Yea I was told that it is infanately more labor intensive to completely replace a rear brake line. Any thoughts on romoving so many parts just to get flair tool down there. Is there a smaller flaring tool?
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 167
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From: Irvine CA
****Does ANYONE OUT THERE have any experience with this issue? And does the exhaust manifold really have to come off to get a tube-flaring tool down to the damaged spot (look at my photos above and you can see exactly where the line has been scraped open....).
Thanks, Dave
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,471
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From: Dyer, IN
Replacing the entire rear brake line is the most expensive option because you have to drop both the front and rear cross members to get at it, plus if the new line doesn't fit exactly you get into isues of bending and possible crimping the new line. The most cost effective way to fix this is to, cut out the damaged 2" section, flair the ends and attach a small new section..
****Does ANYONE OUT THERE have any experience with this issue? And does the exhaust manifold really have to come off to get a tube-flaring tool down to the damaged spot (look at my photos above and you can see exactly where the line has been scraped open....).
Thanks, Dave
****Does ANYONE OUT THERE have any experience with this issue? And does the exhaust manifold really have to come off to get a tube-flaring tool down to the damaged spot (look at my photos above and you can see exactly where the line has been scraped open....).
Thanks, Dave
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,393
Likes: 17
From: Belleville Mich.
One thing if for certain.
Your going to have to make a correction in the line to eliminate this from happening again, if your not able to determine the descrepency in
position of the line/steering joint.
Also there is (different) in (angle) flare kit from stainless lines & steel lines.
Your going to have to make a correction in the line to eliminate this from happening again, if your not able to determine the descrepency in
position of the line/steering joint.
Also there is (different) in (angle) flare kit from stainless lines & steel lines.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 167
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From: Irvine CA
Yea..Not palatable is right and I will have to bite the bullit and pay for it. Everything I have heard about fully replacing brake lines = PITA too. And I'm still not sure if my steering shaft is tweaked. One last question:
1) Has anyone had to splice in a new section of brake line? I assume it will be good as new,
2) My rack/pinion is solid do yall think the steering shaft looks oddly angled to the left or is that just how they are?
3) Do you think I have any legal recourse against chevy for this. I am an attorney and it seems to me that, all things being equal, wandering brake-lines placed so close to a huge spinning column-shaft bolt is more than a bad design and clearly dangerous.
Ok 3 questions.
Thanks,
-Dave
1) Has anyone had to splice in a new section of brake line? I assume it will be good as new,
2) My rack/pinion is solid do yall think the steering shaft looks oddly angled to the left or is that just how they are?
3) Do you think I have any legal recourse against chevy for this. I am an attorney and it seems to me that, all things being equal, wandering brake-lines placed so close to a huge spinning column-shaft bolt is more than a bad design and clearly dangerous.
Ok 3 questions.
Thanks,
-Dave
Last edited by MagRed01Atty; Apr 12, 2011 at 12:22 AM. Reason: Spelling
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 214
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From: Las Cruces New Mexico
just a thought, with the supercharger install, didnt the shop have to remove the rack to access the balancer? i can see how when putting it back in the brake lines were hit and pushed over towards the shaft. again just a thought.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 167
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From: Irvine CA
Now we're getting to the bottom of it. That is something I did not know. Please tell me more. Besides removing and reinstalling the rack/pinion is there anything else that would have been removed or fiddled with during the SC install that might have caused those brake lines to be so out of place.
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
From: Las Cruces New Mexico
well, i remove the rack from the drivers side and i can see where when putting it back in that the shaft or other parts of the rack could get cought on the those lines and it doesnt take much to bend them out of the way just a little. one may not even know they were touched or bent. as far as anything else being removed for the s/c install i dont know. maybe some of the FI guys can answer that. please dont subpoena me 
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 167
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From: Irvine CA
No problem. I appreciate it. Next step is to give Andy a call. His guys installed my SC a little less than a year and a half ago. Mine is strictly a weekend driver and only has 43k on it, and only 2k since his install so I think we know what happened. Andy has always been good to me and is an extremely honorable guy so I will give him a call. Stay tuned.