Cam Choice for Stock LS1 Heads
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 852
Likes: 3
From: Mobile Alabama
Cam Choice for Stock LS1 Heads
Have an '04 C5 6 speed Coupe.
Threads on the forum have indicated that the stock LS1 heads reach their maximum flow potential with .575 lift.
I do not want to buy after market heads or have mine ported/polished. With this in mind what are some cam recommendations for my application. Would like brand and lift, duration, LSA, ect. Also valve spring recommendations.
Goals are:
1. drivability
2. h.p.
3. durability
The only mods are Vararam CAI with Power Duct and LT catted headers and Z06 Ti exhaust.
Threads on the forum have indicated that the stock LS1 heads reach their maximum flow potential with .575 lift.
I do not want to buy after market heads or have mine ported/polished. With this in mind what are some cam recommendations for my application. Would like brand and lift, duration, LSA, ect. Also valve spring recommendations.
Goals are:
1. drivability
2. h.p.
3. durability
The only mods are Vararam CAI with Power Duct and LT catted headers and Z06 Ti exhaust.
Last edited by Quick Draw; Jul 26, 2011 at 11:44 PM.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 535
Likes: 0
From: CA
i just put in my 233/239 with 241 heads that i am currently home porting... dont buy into the BS about the 241 heads not flowing if you open them up just a little they flow pretty well,,,, there is a cat on the LS1 forum who has a 234/244 (i think its a 233/234) with stock 241 heads... i dont know what kinda power he is making but he has a sound clip of it, sounds sick...
to answer your question i think the 228R is about max for the proper flow of the 241 heads
to answer your question i think the 228R is about max for the proper flow of the 241 heads
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
All of the goals you have in some way conflict as cam selection is a series of trade-off's. Durability will decrease with any aftermarket cam setup. Valve springs will need to be monitored and changed as routine maintenance (not often but they can't be just left for the life of the car either). Ramp rates will also play a role in spring life. Valve guide life will also decrease with the additional side loading that results from the higher lifts.
Driveability will go down to some degree with hp since larger cams will tend to have more overlap and less low RPM torque. I would look at cams in the mid/high 220 range duration and lifts less than 0.600". We installed an FTI Street Sweeper cam (smaller of the street sweeper with durations in the 220's) in a friends 04 along with PSI 1511ML valve springs and Yella Terra rockers. Car made 400 rwhp on a Dynojet with that setup.
Driveability will go down to some degree with hp since larger cams will tend to have more overlap and less low RPM torque. I would look at cams in the mid/high 220 range duration and lifts less than 0.600". We installed an FTI Street Sweeper cam (smaller of the street sweeper with durations in the 220's) in a friends 04 along with PSI 1511ML valve springs and Yella Terra rockers. Car made 400 rwhp on a Dynojet with that setup.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 852
Likes: 3
From: Mobile Alabama
All of the goals you have in some way conflict as cam selection is a series of trade-off's. Durability will decrease with any aftermarket cam setup. Valve springs will need to be monitored and changed as routine maintenance (not often but they can't be just left for the life of the car either). Ramp rates will also play a role in spring life. Valve guide life will also decrease with the additional side loading that results from the higher lifts.
Driveability will go down to some degree with hp since larger cams will tend to have more overlap and less low RPM torque. I would look at cams in the mid/high 220 range duration and lifts less than 0.600". We installed an FTI Street Sweeper cam (smaller of the street sweeper with durations in the 220's) in a friends 04 along with PSI 1511ML valve springs and Yella Terra rockers. Car made 400 rwhp on a Dynojet with that setup.
Driveability will go down to some degree with hp since larger cams will tend to have more overlap and less low RPM torque. I would look at cams in the mid/high 220 range duration and lifts less than 0.600". We installed an FTI Street Sweeper cam (smaller of the street sweeper with durations in the 220's) in a friends 04 along with PSI 1511ML valve springs and Yella Terra rockers. Car made 400 rwhp on a Dynojet with that setup.
Thank you! You seem to have a very clear understanding of what I am trying to accomplish. I understand that drivability is compromised somewhat but believe with a duration of 228 or less that a good tune will help.The FTI Street Sweeper Cam with less than .600 lift sounds good. What about a Torker 2 or Texas Speed 228 or 228R?
I also appreciate the spring & rocker recommendations and would be ecstatic if I get 400 rwhp.
What LSA do you rcommend?
Last edited by Quick Draw; Jul 27, 2011 at 01:46 PM.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 852
Likes: 3
From: Mobile Alabama
i just put in my 233/239 with 241 heads that i am currently home porting... dont buy into the BS about the 241 heads not flowing if you open them up just a little they flow pretty well,,,, there is a cat on the LS1 forum who has a 234/244 (i think its a 233/234) with stock 241 heads... i dont know what kinda power he is making but he has a sound clip of it, sounds sick...
to answer your question i think the 228R is about max for the proper flow of the 241 heads
to answer your question i think the 228R is about max for the proper flow of the 241 heads
I think I would like to stay under 230 duration and under 600 lift.
Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
From: DFW Texas
I ran the F13 from Futral motorpsorts in my 00 SS. Spec's are 230/232 .595/.595 on a 112LSA(choppy idle) with a mild p&p on 853's and bolt-ons I laid down 398/ 384 to the wheels corrected.
LSA: Is Lobe Seperation Angle or the amount of cam shaft degrees between the Intake lobe and Exhaust Lobe. The larger the duration and lower LSA means that the Intake valve is opening before the exhaust valve closes(Overlap) thus increasing performance to a certain extent. So larger duration with lower LSA will give you choppy idle and increase mid and higher rpm performance. For example a 224/224 114lsa cam is rated for 1800-6400iirc and a 230/232 112lsa is rated 2500-6800<- this is the power range in which you'll see the increase.
There's more to it but thats the basic's as I know it lol.
The Beej
LSA: Is Lobe Seperation Angle or the amount of cam shaft degrees between the Intake lobe and Exhaust Lobe. The larger the duration and lower LSA means that the Intake valve is opening before the exhaust valve closes(Overlap) thus increasing performance to a certain extent. So larger duration with lower LSA will give you choppy idle and increase mid and higher rpm performance. For example a 224/224 114lsa cam is rated for 1800-6400iirc and a 230/232 112lsa is rated 2500-6800<- this is the power range in which you'll see the increase.
There's more to it but thats the basic's as I know it lol.
The Beej
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 852
Likes: 3
From: Mobile Alabama
Cam Choice
I ran the F13 from Futral motorpsorts in my 00 SS. Spec's are 230/232 .595/.595 on a 112LSA(choppy idle) with a mild p&p on 853's and bolt-ons I laid down 398/ 384 to the wheels corrected.
LSA: Is Lobe Seperation Angle or the amount of cam shaft degrees between the Intake lobe and Exhaust Lobe. The larger the duration and lower LSA means that the Intake valve is opening before the exhaust valve closes(Overlap) thus increasing performance to a certain extent. So larger duration with lower LSA will give you choppy idle and increase mid and higher rpm performance. For example a 224/224 114lsa cam is rated for 1800-6400iirc and a 230/232 112lsa is rated 2500-6800<- this is the power range in which you'll see the increase.
There's more to it but thats the basic's as I know it lo
The Beej
LSA: Is Lobe Seperation Angle or the amount of cam shaft degrees between the Intake lobe and Exhaust Lobe. The larger the duration and lower LSA means that the Intake valve is opening before the exhaust valve closes(Overlap) thus increasing performance to a certain extent. So larger duration with lower LSA will give you choppy idle and increase mid and higher rpm performance. For example a 224/224 114lsa cam is rated for 1800-6400iirc and a 230/232 112lsa is rated 2500-6800<- this is the power range in which you'll see the increase.
There's more to it but thats the basic's as I know it lo
The Beej
Those are very good numbers and I would be very happy with them.
I am looking for more power/torque under the curve as I do not intend to turn much over 6000 rpms.
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Drifting
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,523
Likes: 34
From: King George Virginia
Take a serious look at this cam.
Crane Cam (The Boss) DUR @ .004" 278*/ 286*
DUR @ .050" 216*/ 224*LIFT .551/.551 OVERLAP 53*LSA 115*. I have this in my car (A4) with 1.8 rockers which changes the lift to .583. If you go to Vinci Performance in FL web page you can here the cam installed on idle. My car idles like stock at 600 RMP until you get on it it. No drive ability issues at all but lots of low end torq.
Crane Cam (The Boss) DUR @ .004" 278*/ 286*
DUR @ .050" 216*/ 224*LIFT .551/.551 OVERLAP 53*LSA 115*. I have this in my car (A4) with 1.8 rockers which changes the lift to .583. If you go to Vinci Performance in FL web page you can here the cam installed on idle. My car idles like stock at 600 RMP until you get on it it. No drive ability issues at all but lots of low end torq.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,396
Likes: 52
From: Sicamous BC
I've been mining the camshaft valve events, overlap, durations etc for the past four weeks. I'm the victim of a bad recommendation so I'm trying not to make another mistake or as in one the articles I read....... do not allow yourself to be talked into something you don't want. 
This is a series of very good LS cam tests & explanations here:
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...est/index.html
I like this one particularly because it only tests 2 cams that are at the extreme end's. Many more good cam test's in this publication using some very good real world testing.
One more:
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...son/index.html
This is a series of very good LS cam tests & explanations here:
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...est/index.html
I like this one particularly because it only tests 2 cams that are at the extreme end's. Many more good cam test's in this publication using some very good real world testing.
One more:
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...son/index.html
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 852
Likes: 3
From: Mobile Alabama
It would appear that many are running cams with well over .600 lift and high 230 to 240 duration. Not for me.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 852
Likes: 3
From: Mobile Alabama
I've been mining the camshaft valve events, overlap, durations etc for the past four weeks. I'm the victim of a bad recommendation so I'm trying not to make another mistake or as in one the articles I read....... do not allow yourself to be talked into something you don't want.
This is a series of very good LS cam tests & explanations here:
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...est/index.html
I like this one particularly because it only tests 2 cams that are at the extreme end's. Many more good cam test's in this publication using some very good real world testing.
One more:
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...son/index.html
This is a series of very good LS cam tests & explanations here:
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...est/index.html
I like this one particularly because it only tests 2 cams that are at the extreme end's. Many more good cam test's in this publication using some very good real world testing.
One more:
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...son/index.html
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
most guys put way to big of a cam for any head choice and then get poor results.
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,649
Likes: 50
From: Goldsboro NC
Couldnt agree more here. To the OP glad to see you carefully planning out your mods. It will serve you well in the long run. Now i did go with a 233/239, HOWEVER i have 243 heads and even then from my research im at the absoulte limit with them. I did well. Of course with all parts considered. I came from a lowly 320whp 318tq when stock to 412/380 today from cam only. I have a 01ZO6 (supporting mods like i said)
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 852
Likes: 3
From: Mobile Alabama
Couldnt agree more here. To the OP glad to see you carefully planning out your mods. It will serve you well in the long run. Now i did go with a 233/239, HOWEVER i have 243 heads and even then from my research im at the absoulte limit with them. I did well. Of course with all parts considered. I came from a lowly 320whp 318tq when stock to 412/380 today from cam only. I have a 01ZO6 (supporting mods like i said)
Very impressive gains!
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,903
Likes: 1
From: You know your drunk when you swerve to miss the tree then you realize its your air freshener! Covington Ga
I'm happy with my MS3(237/242 .603/.609 112LSA) with 241 heads.......413RWHP and 379RWTQ on a DynoJet then 389RWHP on a Mustang dyno. We will see what the FAST 92 added soon.
i figured youd post in here sooner or later. I said it once and ill say it again. For 241 heads, those are EXCELLENT numbers.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,903
Likes: 1
From: You know your drunk when you swerve to miss the tree then you realize its your air freshener! Covington Ga