Air intake question...
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From: The Rock Arkansas
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Air intake question...
Just about ready to get a Blackwing and wanted to ask a quick question. I've read where A4 C5s need a computer tweak/reprogram to get the maximum use out of the intake. Is this necessary with the MN6?
TIA!!
TIA!!
Safety Car
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From: Plano TX
Re: Air intake question... (Doughan)
:confused:
No reprogram is necessary for either a MN6 or A4.
If you mean the PCM learning process, that would be the same for either. Disagreement on methods.
1. Some just drive it.
2. Others do the idle relearn.
3. Some do the PCM relearn.
Or, maybe you mean optimizing with a MAF translator?
No reprogram is necessary for either a MN6 or A4.
If you mean the PCM learning process, that would be the same for either. Disagreement on methods.
1. Some just drive it.
2. Others do the idle relearn.
3. Some do the PCM relearn.
Or, maybe you mean optimizing with a MAF translator?
Race Director
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From: Lynnfield MA
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Re: Air intake question... (Doughan)
Drive it like you normally would and your computer will compensate for any changes :yesnod:
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From: Burlington ON
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Re: Air intake question... (Doughan)
I was thinking of the PCM relearn. What is the "idle" process?
I do this routine everytime I have to unhook the battery for one reason or another.
Also, drop me an email if you are interested in a good price on a Blackwing.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2001
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From: Wilmington NC
Re: Air intake question... (Doughan)
Just about ready to get a Blackwing and wanted to ask a quick question. I've read where A4 C5s need a computer tweak/reprogram to get the maximum use out of the intake. Is this necessary with the MN6?
TIA!!
TIA!!
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 4,202
Likes: 2
From: Plano TX
Re: Air intake question... (Doughan)
From the 2001 Service Manual:
Idle Learn Procedure
The learned idle procedure needs to be done if any of the following events occur:
Automatic Transmission
Perform the following procedure in order to return the learned idle to the correct position:
Manual Transmission
Perform the following procedure in order to return the learned idle to the correct position:
Idle Learn Procedure
The learned idle procedure needs to be done if any of the following events occur:
- The powertrain control module (PCM) is disconnected
- The battery is disconnected
- The PCM loses power
- The PCM is reprogrammed
Automatic Transmission
Perform the following procedure in order to return the learned idle to the correct position:
- Turn OFF the ignition.
- Restore the PCM battery feed.
- Turn OFF the A/C controls.
- Set the parking brake, and block the drive wheels.
- Start the engine.
- Ensure that the engine coolant temperature is more than 80°C (176°F).
- Shift the transmission into Drive.
- Allow the engine to idle for 5 minutes.
- Shift the transmission into Park.
- Allow the engine to idle for 5 minutes.
- Turn OFF the engine for 30 seconds.
Manual Transmission
Perform the following procedure in order to return the learned idle to the correct position:
- Turn OFF the ignition.
- Restore the PCM battery feed.
- Turn OFF the A/C controls.
- Set the parking brake, and block the drive wheels.
- Place the transmission in Neutral.
- Start the engine.
- Ensure that the engine coolant temperature is more than 80°C (176°F).
- Allow the engine to idle for 5 minutes.
- Turn OFF the engine for 30 seconds.
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Safety Car
Joined: Dec 1999
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From: Plano TX
Re: Air intake question... (Doughan)
I've used the following after all of my intake changes:
Originally posted by C5 Pilot on 12-31-1999 at 12:29 AM:
Directly after install you are supposed to:
1) Insert key into ignition and turn to the "On" position but, DO NOT START THE ENGINE.
2) Pop open the fuse box cover and remove the two 10amp fuses from position numbers 16 & 23.
According to the manual there are 2 fuse boxes. Use the engine compartment fuse block for this procedure.
Instrument Panel Fuse Block (wrong one): 16 is Air bag and 22 is Body Control Module - Ignition and 23 is Body Control Module - Ignition 2.
Engine Compartment Fuse Block (correct one): 16 is Powertrain Control Module A and 23 is Powertrain Control Module B.
Note. Your DIC will now display "check" messages for ABS, etc... Do not worry. This is normal.
3) Go back to your cockpit and turn your key to the "Off" position.
4) Return to the fuse box and re-insert both 10amp fuses for positions 16 & 23.
5) Go back to your cockpit and start your engine. Allow engine coolant temperature to reach a minimum of 176 degrees F. Allow engine to run at this minimum temperature for at least 5 minutes.
6) After a minimum of 5 minutes, at 176F, shut down engine and let rest for a minimum of 30 seconds.
7) Restart engine - check for DIC error codes (there should be none).
8) Drive car for a minimum of 30 miles at varying rpm settings and speeds. PCM will now re-learn and adjust for the new air flow and air temperature at the intake.
If error codes persist, repeat steps 1-7. Make sure fuses are properly inserted before repeating steps. Do not void the sequence outlined above. If you do, restart sequence from scratch.
Steps 1-4 are also necessary if you ever disconnect your battery or lose power for any reason.
Directly after install you are supposed to:
1) Insert key into ignition and turn to the "On" position but, DO NOT START THE ENGINE.
2) Pop open the fuse box cover and remove the two 10amp fuses from position numbers 16 & 23.
According to the manual there are 2 fuse boxes. Use the engine compartment fuse block for this procedure.
Instrument Panel Fuse Block (wrong one): 16 is Air bag and 22 is Body Control Module - Ignition and 23 is Body Control Module - Ignition 2.
Engine Compartment Fuse Block (correct one): 16 is Powertrain Control Module A and 23 is Powertrain Control Module B.
Note. Your DIC will now display "check" messages for ABS, etc... Do not worry. This is normal.
3) Go back to your cockpit and turn your key to the "Off" position.
4) Return to the fuse box and re-insert both 10amp fuses for positions 16 & 23.
5) Go back to your cockpit and start your engine. Allow engine coolant temperature to reach a minimum of 176 degrees F. Allow engine to run at this minimum temperature for at least 5 minutes.
6) After a minimum of 5 minutes, at 176F, shut down engine and let rest for a minimum of 30 seconds.
7) Restart engine - check for DIC error codes (there should be none).
8) Drive car for a minimum of 30 miles at varying rpm settings and speeds. PCM will now re-learn and adjust for the new air flow and air temperature at the intake.
If error codes persist, repeat steps 1-7. Make sure fuses are properly inserted before repeating steps. Do not void the sequence outlined above. If you do, restart sequence from scratch.
Steps 1-4 are also necessary if you ever disconnect your battery or lose power for any reason.
Safety Car
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From: Greenville NC
Re: Air intake question... (Richin Chicago)
In my opinion, unpopular as it is, save your money. We just had 30 some Corvettes at a Dyno day and non of the "breather" packages showed any real differences from stock set ups.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
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From: Western NY
Re: Air intake question... (ncvetteman)
This discussion has got me thinking.......I installed the CAGS by-pass plug on my 2001 coupe last week. The supplied instructions said to disconnect the battery as "Step 1". Nowhere in the instructions did it say anything about doing the "Idle Re-learn", so I just re-connected the battery when I finished.
I've driven the car 100-125 miles since that time with no apparent problems. Am I (the car, that is) OK, or should I disconnect the battery and go through the process?
Thanks for your input.
I've driven the car 100-125 miles since that time with no apparent problems. Am I (the car, that is) OK, or should I disconnect the battery and go through the process?
Thanks for your input.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,375
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
Re: Air intake question... (Richin Chicago)
In my opinion, unpopular as it is, save your money. We just had 30 some Corvettes at a Dyno day and non of the "breather" packages showed any real differences from stock set ups.
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,569
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From: Greenville NC
Re: Air intake question... (leadfoot4)
This discussion has got me thinking.......I installed the CAGS by-pass plug on my 2001 coupe last week. The supplied instructions said to disconnect the battery as "Step 1". Nowhere in the instructions did it say anything about doing the "Idle Re-learn", so I just re-connected the battery when I finished.
I've driven the car 100-125 miles since that time with no apparent problems. Am I (the car, that is) OK, or should I disconnect the battery and go through the process?
Thanks for your input.
I've driven the car 100-125 miles since that time with no apparent problems. Am I (the car, that is) OK, or should I disconnect the battery and go through the process?
Thanks for your input.
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 4,202
Likes: 2
From: Plano TX
Re: Air intake question... (Richin Chicago)
In my opinion, unpopular as it is, save your money. We just had 30 some Corvettes at a Dyno day and none of the "breather" packages showed any real differences from stock set ups.
As the air intake covers opened up with 2001 & 2002 (Z06), there should be lower gains, but still gains.
Heel & Toe
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 15
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From: Scottsdale AZ
Re: Air intake question... (Doughan)
Re: quote: In my opinion, unpopular as it is, save your money. We just had 30 some Corvettes at a Dyno day and non of the "breather" packages showed any real differences from stock set ups.
I am not sure what dyno's you had access to, or what the conditions were under which you tested, but we have spent thousands of dollars with different versions of our products on the dyno (and can show you the certified results) and with our worst run we pulled off almost 11 hp and adveraged 14 hp. In fact, to become a officially licensed GM SPO Product, (which we are) these tests had to be certified and then re-tested by GM. We passed with flying colors. Now this might fall under your "any real differences" range, but we feel that it is quite significant, considering the HP per $ ratio. This does not even include the old SOTP feeling that is much greater than the 14 hp due to improved tone.
I am sure that the millions of dollars spent annually by all of the performance manufacturers on dynos across the country should tell you that it is a worth while practice.
Jason Cobb
RM Racing / Twin Flow
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not sure what dyno's you had access to, or what the conditions were under which you tested, but we have spent thousands of dollars with different versions of our products on the dyno (and can show you the certified results) and with our worst run we pulled off almost 11 hp and adveraged 14 hp. In fact, to become a officially licensed GM SPO Product, (which we are) these tests had to be certified and then re-tested by GM. We passed with flying colors. Now this might fall under your "any real differences" range, but we feel that it is quite significant, considering the HP per $ ratio. This does not even include the old SOTP feeling that is much greater than the 14 hp due to improved tone.
I am sure that the millions of dollars spent annually by all of the performance manufacturers on dynos across the country should tell you that it is a worth while practice.
Jason Cobb
RM Racing / Twin Flow
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: D*ck ina Box
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Re: Air intake question... (RM Racing)
In my opinion, unpopular as it is, save your money.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,411
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From: Wilmington NC
Re: Air intake question... (RM Racing)
Re: quote: In my opinion, unpopular as it is, save your money. We just had 30 some Corvettes at a Dyno day and non of the "breather" packages showed any real differences from stock set ups.
I am not sure what dyno's you had access to, or what the conditions were under which you tested, but we have spent thousands of dollars with different versions of our products on the dyno (and can show you the certified results) and with our worst run we pulled off almost 11 hp and adveraged 14 hp. In fact, to become a officially licensed GM SPO Product, (which we are) these tests had to be certified and then re-tested by GM. We passed with flying colors. Now this might fall under your "any real differences" range, but we feel that it is quite significant, considering the HP per $ ratio. This does not even include the old SOTP feeling that is much greater than the 14 hp due to improved tone.
I am sure that the millions of dollars spent annually by all of the performance manufacturers on dynos across the country should tell you that it is a worth while practice.
Jason Cobb
RM Racing / Twin Flow
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree, on the meaning of the word word "signifigant". But I agree with you about the "SOTP", people can easily be fooled into thinking a car is making more power because it has a louder sounding intake.
I am not sure what dyno's you had access to, or what the conditions were under which you tested, but we have spent thousands of dollars with different versions of our products on the dyno (and can show you the certified results) and with our worst run we pulled off almost 11 hp and adveraged 14 hp. In fact, to become a officially licensed GM SPO Product, (which we are) these tests had to be certified and then re-tested by GM. We passed with flying colors. Now this might fall under your "any real differences" range, but we feel that it is quite significant, considering the HP per $ ratio. This does not even include the old SOTP feeling that is much greater than the 14 hp due to improved tone.
I am sure that the millions of dollars spent annually by all of the performance manufacturers on dynos across the country should tell you that it is a worth while practice.
Jason Cobb
RM Racing / Twin Flow
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree, on the meaning of the word word "signifigant". But I agree with you about the "SOTP", people can easily be fooled into thinking a car is making more power because it has a louder sounding intake.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 798
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From: Manchester NH
Re: Air intake question... (RM Racing)
with our worst run we pulled off almost 11 hp and adveraged 14 hp
I'm not doubting any performance gains that have been claimed, I'm just hoping that the claims will start to be backed up with useful, thorough information, not just a single slice of data which could be misleading.
My only religion is science,
Pete
[Modified by pburant, 5:51 PM 5/8/2002]
