OK, that explains it!

I will take whatever help I can get!

I'll be re-using the OEM damper, assuming I can use it with the thicker pump body on the 10296. I plan to use an OEM crank bolt as well. If I was planning to have the car apart to this level several more times I'd just go ahead with the ARP bolt, but unless I need to pin the crank for a blower install I'm hoping to never see this procedure again!

Excellent cutaway pic of the oil pump O ring! Stuff like that is sure to be a big help! BTW, I'm jealous as well as I was supposed to be going to Carlisle this year but one of the crew fudged his vacation time and we had to call it off. Have fun!

 

Hmmm... it would be really interesting to see how those pulleys lign up!

 

Well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, If your using the OLD DAMPER that may BITE you later down the road. They have a tendency to debond and fail. If your using new OEM damper,,, thats fine. I upgraded to a POWER-BOND and an ARP bolt.

Use HEAT removing and installing the damper. HEAT THE HUB to approx 150-200 degs and you will be amazed how much easier the removal and install will be.

You can use a heat gun or a propane torch on low flame.

Make sure you put a NEW SEAL in the cover, and use some RTV in the corners of the cover seal. MAKE SURE that you put the Timing chain cover gasket on in the correct orientation or you will have a massive oil leak.

BC

 

OK, so if everyone's doing it, how are they doing it if it shouldn't work??? That is my question!

OK, here's the way I'm picturing this works...

1 - As far as I can tell from the pictures I've searched through, the nose of the crank is one smooth non-tapered machined surface from the front of the crank to the shoulder just before the first bearing.

2 - The timing gear goes on the crank with the key in the slot. The teeth go towards the back and the "splined" oil pump drive goes out towards the front.

3 - The oil pump goes on and engages the splines on the front of the timing gear.

4 - The damper gets pushed on until the back surface presses up against the front surface of the timing gear.

NOW IF I'M RIGHT, it would make sense to me that the splined area of the timing gear would be wider than the gearotor on the oil pump, that way there would be a clearance that would allow the gearotor to move freely along the splined area. If that's the case, then the thicker pump can only move the gearotor forward until it hits the back of the balancer, and ideally I'd think there should be some clearance there...

Another thing I don't know for sure is if the I.D. of the gearotor is larger than the O.D. of the balancer... if it is larger than the balancer it could slide forward and only partially engage the splines on the timing gear.

Can someone confirm if I'm on the right track with these thoughts, or am I out to lunch? I'm basing this all on pics that were not intended to show what I'm looking for!

 

Here is how we did mine. Alot of time and the right machines. Thats with a double roller chain.

Take your time!

 

Good advice I think given the mileage on my car, though I'm already over-budget for this unscheduled/planned mod! Time to find out what a new damper costs...

All points taken... I agree on the heat - makes life a lot easier when things refuse to move. If woman isn't around maybe I'll just "bake" the balancer for a while.

Thanks for all your advice so far! Looking forward to your tips on dealing with the pickup tube bolt!

 

I saw your pics in my search quest for info - thanks!

QUESTION: Did you space the pump away from the block (forward) for extra timing chain clearance? If I remember right you took material from the front of the pump as well, correct? Just to be 100% sure, it's the 10296 HV pump you're using, right?

 

Another question regarding the oil pickup tube bolts. I've seen pickup tubes with bolts on both sides, and pickups with one bolt only - and with the one bolt on different sides!

Is it acceptable to just have one bolt holding the pickup tube in place? It would be nice if the answer is yes!

 

Im pretty sure its a 95 but it could be a 96. But I think a 96 is a black casting. Its been a couple of months. Doesnt matter because Ive had both. I know the other one I had to grind off the casting on the back of the pump to make it clear the chain. Yes I used the spacers and a super thin layer of permatex on the spacer because Im a weirdo and dont want to take crap all apart. Just take your time when you do this. I cannot stress it enough. Pull the plugs if the motor is in the car to make it easier to spin and look for any interference. Most of the problem with mine was the forward face of the pump touching the LS2 timing cover. Nothing a little prussian blue wont tell you. I think the new version pumps come with torx screws so you dont have to machine (Grind) down the front bolts anymore. And remember the front timing cover is like a shim

 

I have never seen one with two. HMM YOU MEAN THE PUMP RIGHT?

 

I just put on a 10296 high volume oil pump and LS2 chain. Everything lined up fine w no problems what so ever, nothing needed to be clearanced, spaced, shimmed, etc. If I remember correctly I also used the thinner o-ring, it fit much better. Lube up the oring, it helps get it on without a problem, the last thing you want to do is to chew that thing up and have to redo everything.

Also don't drop the one pick up tube bolt into the oil pan

My balancer lined up with the other pullies and I have put well over 1000 miles on the car since the install.

The hardest part for me was getting the darn gears lined up to push the pump onto the crank

The only issue i have seen is regarding a double roller timing chain

 

This is good to hear! What year is your car? LS1 or 6 (not sure if it matters)?

I think I'm seeing the same trend developing, though from what I was told by Texas Speed it's not a 100% guarantee it will fit without some clearancing. It sounds like if there is any interferance it will be minor at worst since I'm not planning to space the pump out and will just use the LS2 chain as you have done.

 

I very well could be mistaken (It's happened before ) but I could swear I've seen a pic with a two bolt flange on the pickup tube. Maybe it was an aftermarket tube?

 

That would be sweet! I hope you're right.

What do you mean by that? Shim?

 

corvettebob1, could you expand on this and share your personal experience with this issue?

 

Well back when I did my H/C 1 1/2 years ago I was considering using the H/V pump and researched it with Melling.
AFAIR they told me the pump gears are ~18% thicker that is what gives the higher volume.
Now at the time I was going with a double roller chain that required spacing the oil pump out further, the thicker pump body would have caused more interference with the timing cover.
I ended up using the standard Melling pump and still had to grind both the pump body and the T/C for clearance in addition I had to use button head bolts to mount the pump.

Now after all this discussion I went and looked at my old parts and it appears the balancer bottoms out on the crank timing gear and OD. of the balancer is smaller then the ID. of the pump gear.
So if your using an LS2 timing chain you may not have an issue, also mine is a 98 so there may be some differences.
I have some pic's but they are on my old HD but I haven't transferred them yet.

Just take your time and check and recheck all your clearances and you will be fine, tip check your clearance without the T/C gasket in place.

 

I have a 99 C5 but that shouldn't matter, I'm telling you it fit and your will no problem, the only time I have heard about needing to clearance anything is if running a double roller chain.

If you want a stronger chain go with the katech and be done with it, I ran the LS2 and the h/v pump without a problem at all. Well other than my cam bolts coming loose a day after the install but that's a whole other discussion

Oil pressure is at about 70psi cold and when the oil fully warms up ~200* it's at about 35psi.

I replaced the high pressure spring with the standard pressure spring and I'd recommend you do the same.

 

I have a 99 C5 but that shouldn't matter, I'm telling you it fit, and yours will, without a problem, the only time I have heard about needing to clearance anything is if running a double roller chain.

If you want a stronger chain go with the katech and be done with it, I ran the LS2 and the h/v pump without a problem at all. Well other than my cam bolts coming loose a day after the install but that's a whole other discussion

Oil pressure is at about 70psi cold and when the oil fully warms up ~200* it's at about 35psi.

I replaced the high pressure spring with the standard pressure spring and I'd recommend you do the same.

I just did this about a month ago, and did it twice so it's very fresh in my mind

 

If it were me,,, I would NOT bake the damper. Heating the ENTIRE HUB is a lot different than directly heating just the hub. It doesn't take much heat to get it to expand when you directly heat just the HUB. Were NOT talking cherry red!

Getting it to 150 deg is very quick and does not harm the damper or other engine components. It takes a little longer with a Wagner heat gun than it does with a propane torch,

My pick up tube only had ONE bolt! ALL the C5 that I have ever worked on have only had ONE bolt.

As far as the O ring goes,,,,, that updated new thicker O ring seals a LOT better and it does fit fine. I used an inspection mirror to make sure that the O ring was properly inserted into the recess and NOT extruded out the side.

I'm pretty good at manipulating the screw and not dropping it in the pan BUT,,, I went ahead and put some paper towels in the opening to prevent it from getting away!

Make sure that you read and PRINT OUT the procedure on properly tightening the crank/damper bolt! FOLLOW THE PROCEDURE 100% and do NOT take shortcuts.
I made my OWN damper install tool from an old bolt and some all thread welded together. You need the tool to start the damper on to the crank!! Do not use the old bolt to start the damper as you may pull out the first few threads in the crank snout.

I also used a LARGE strap wrench to hold the damper still during bolt removal and bolt re-torque.. Using that procedure I can do the entire procedure MY SELF!

BC

 

Thanks for researching that for me! With all of the great info here I'm feeling pretty confident now that everything will go as planned.