Ironman433

Hello... I was reading some of your input... Then I started looking for my secret decoder ring so that I could try and figure out what you just said...?? Obviously auto tech is not my bag. LOL

I was looking around to see if maybe some after market place had started making this part but as best as I can tell - NO SUCH LUCK!! By the way - I was the one who started this thread.

Since it doesn't look likely that there's going to be any new units made soon, I'd be willing to go in with you on making them and selling them because with 33,270 - 1999's and 35,627 - 2000's made... Surely there has to be a few hundred cars in need of these?!

PhilsFRC

I suspect that one of the reasons these are NLA, is the tremendous potential liability issue involved in manufacturing and selling them. Since they are coupled to the active handling system, it would be an attorney's field day if a failure could be connected to injury or death. My $.02.

nyelectrify

I don't understand what the whole thing is about this part not being available. I brought my car in for a recall issue about the steering wheel lock and told them I had a code for the steering wheel position sensor..
They said no problem and ordered the part through gms parts locator network and got it in two days.

Vicarious.

I think some model years still have them available...while other C5 years don't.

PhilsFRC

IIRC '99 and '00 are unique (with the active handling) and are the ones that are NLA. Those specific years are the issue. I have a '99.

nyelectrify

Ok........mine is a 98 regular coupe. But those are available just for FYI

kernelPanicked

Here is that high-res of the wiring diagram, sorry for the delay:
https://i.imgur.com/Qb3a3.jpg

Ironman433

Yeah... I know!! You can get your position sensor down at Auto Zone even for $65! For some reason, the '97/'98's were only about $85 at the dealer and the same is true for the '01-'04... But if you had a '99/'00 - it was a $350 DEALER ONLY part and now GM has stopped making that part all together about a year or so ago... I've literally been looking world wide for ONE LOUSY UNIT for about a year now with no luck! I even wrote GM and asked if there was a specific land fill that I needed to take my '99 to since it's now un-repairable and that's a safety issue part! They confirmed that they don't make them and gave me some real helpful links to look at: Vintage Pick Up, Classic Chevy Musclecars, Ford F Series Trucks... Seriously - they were almost that useless...

I was even asking if the entire steering column could be swapped out because according to some eBay sellers they all interchange - but I'm told that this sensor won't read from another year - different ohms or the flux capasitor isn't compatible with the Q38 Space Modulatoooor or some s**t?!

Ironman433

Good point! You'd have to get it tested and undergo a huge inspection ordeal... I can't believe that with a constant search I haven't found one rat-holed somewhere!!

Greg MFn Z

WOW, I don't even have my 99 anymore but found this thread really intresting. The only help I can add is some people said the column is interchangeble for a few years so why cant they use the whole column with sensor??? Well, the " column " itself may be interchangeble but that doesnt mean the accesories attached to it are. so just because someone leaves the sensor on it from an 04, that doesnt mean it will work on a 99, just the column itself is interchangble.
Me myself, I would def be trying to buy a column from a 99-00 to gain that sensor. I know I read that there is a tab that breaks when you remove it but if you put the whole column in then you shouldnt have to remove the sensor????

Vicarious.

Theorectically, you could always upgrade your '99 PCM to a later year...then the newer model sensor would match up to your car. Upgrading PCM's could be a potentially huge wiring project, but I know it's been done before. '99-'02 model PCM's seem to be fairly similar...I would bet money it's not impossible to swap the '99 out for an '02 PCM. Just not sure if it would also be necessary to swap out the BCM as well...since '99 and '02 have different BCM's

kernelPanicked

THIS is what I think we will have to do. And what I'd like to figure out is, can we mix and match? For instance, I have all 2000 electronics, but I have a 2004 TPMS/KE module. Could I also get a 2002 or so ABS/TC module in the mix? That would also solve the problem regarding those things being discontinued for the older cars. Maybe I will ask GM about this today at Carlisle!

K-Spaz

Thanks, that's much better.
I doubt it. If the original could fail and cause some huge issue, then GM would be at fault. Not to mention, who would someone go after, GM with boatloads of money, or some schmuck with 50 bucks who made an aftermarket part.

Furthermore, I have a job, and I have no intent of making them to sell. It might be a fun evening project to make one, and that's about it. And I would trust my work over anything that came from a GM engineer. We're talking about the same people who 30 years after the DIN chassis came around internationally, still haven't adopted the standard ISO 7736.

Guys, this is throwing out the baby with the bath water. I'm not afraid to tackle a reasonable project on a car, but this line of thinking is where I'd draw the line. Time to ditch the car and buy something else.

Months spent on elective mods to a car, might be relaxing to some, that's one thing. Months spent on research of electrical systems and with firmware compatibility issues and the like, that's another. Methinks that ain't so relaxing. Then, who's to say the wiring harnesses are even available. These cars ain't no spring chickens any more. There's all sorts of parts not available for my 98. A/C system as an example, this hose available, but this one not. That sort of thing. Same for wiring?

You can have it.

K-Spaz

A question, since my car does not have this option. I don't know where they mount. Does this thing mount right over the shaft as it enters the Rack? Maybe with the rack having some additional bosses for mounting it? Mine has no bosses or tapped holes there that I could attach with.

ZeeOSix

Wonder why the aftermarket guys don't make the sensor for the 99 & 00 model years, but do for all other years?

Ironman433

This is from another thread but may show what you're asking:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1561187051-post15.html

rene p evangelista

All: MyY 1999 c5 just was just diagnosed with this same issue as it has been sitting at the dealer here in teh DFW area for 2 weeks. I have emailed GM a complaint which it has reached LEVEL 2. I dont know how many 1999 & 2000 cars there are out there but I am ready to get going on a class action lawsuit. For those of you who are with me please email. I can get a good bulldog attorney to do this. WE CANNOT LET THEM BULLY US THINKING WE WILL NOT JUST GO AWAY!

Rene P Evangelista

rene p evangelista

All: My car is still with the dealer & i will see what becomes of this.

You guys with the same situaiton such as me, iwill keep you guys posted. I would love to know how many 1999 & 2000 models gm sold that are out there & affected because these facts will be good for our attorney in teh even we file a class action suit

Rene evangelista

Tron Z

The last thing I want to do is pour gasoline on the fire, but there are a few misconceptions regarding parts availability. All automobile "manufacturers" struggle with these issues from time to time and the causes are many and varied.


First, you'll notice that I put the word manufacturers in quotes. That's because in reality, the manufacturers actually manufacture very little these days, apart from body panels and stampings. Most manufacturers also have at least some rudimentary foundry facilities, as well. The bulk of the components, however, are sourced from hundreds, if not thousands of independent and semi-independant suppliers. A lot of the outsourcing is driven by head count constraints, due to the ever increasing costs of benefit packages


Some of these components may be an off the shelf solution. The supplier will provide the information necessary to integrate the component into the vehicle, but they will not provide the drawings, nor the license to actually build the component. They reserve those rights to themselves.


Other components may be modifications of an existing design, or something completely new, as a result of engineers from both the supplier and manufacturer working cooperatively at one level, or another. Who owns the rights to produce these parts? Generally the supplier is in the drivers seat, but this is where the corporate attorneys earn their keep.


An important aspect of these cooperative ventures is, who owns the tooling that is used to manufacture the component. Even though a manufacturer may own the design and the engineering drawings, they may not own the all-important tooling that is used to produce the part (not all corporate attorneys are created equally). In this situation the supplier holds the upper hand, but the most distressing aspect of this situation is that suppliers can and do go out of business ... effectively taking the tooling out of circulation. Sometimes the tooling is liquidated for scrap and it is gone forever. This has been a big issue over the past few years.


Let's say that I'm a manufacturer and I need 30,000 widgets a year for the next three years. The ACME Widget company is one of my preferred suppliers and we have co-developed a solution. I offer them a contract for 100,000 widgets (the 90k I need for the assembly line, plus x% for the aftermarket parts channel). For a time everything is rosy, until it is discovered that the failure rate for these widgets is much higher than any one anticipated. Fortunately, the root cause is easily identified and the design is updated. The immediate issue is that the inventory in the parts channel has been exhausted. No problem, I reach out to ACME and tell them that I need another 500 widgets, built to the revised specification. ACME says they would be happy to produce another 100,000 widgets for $125 each and they can ramp up production within sixty days. I insist that I only need 500 widgets. ACME resposnds that they are busy with orders from other manufacturers and that setting up the tooling for just a thousand parts is going to be costly, due to their lost production capacity during the set-up process. The upside is that they do have a hole in their calendar in nine months and they can let me have the widgets for only $1400 each.


This is what's known in the industry as, "... engaging the supplier in negotiations."


As a manufacturer, I want to take care of my customers, but I don't want to be bent over, nor do I want to have my capitol tied up in 100,000 pieces of a relatively slow moving part, about which I have only received 100 written complaints. At a certain level it always comes down to money. If my balance sheet looks anything like GM's and I have limited financial resources, do I invest in the 2016 MY Family Truckster, or do I bend over and tell the supplier, "Thank you may I have another." Also, in the back of my mind, I am wondering how long I will remain chairman of the board, when the directors notice the frozen capitol on the financial statement, the Family Truckster behind schedule and the latest stock price is trending in the wrong direction.


Sometimes the supplier has gone out of business, sometimes the tooling is MIA, sometimes a sub-component has been discontinued (common with electrical components – hey, Intel isn't going to build i286 processors forever) and sometimes it's a business decision. Either way, it is not personal. GM does not hate you because you drive a C5. Again, the reasons are many and varied, but this gives you a flavor. This won't make you feel any better if you need a widget for your car right now, today, but I hope that it gives you a little better insight into how the parts channel can and does break down ... sometimes with alarming regularity.


BTW: I have never worked for GM, nor any of their suppliers, but I have logged over 22 years with other auto manufacturers.

10.5Vette

Also as others have pointed out on the ECBM issue, the SWPS was produced by the old GM. As I understand it the post bankruptcy GM is not responsible for the old GM's issues.