ticking/knock noise
Pro
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 647
Likes: 22
From: Norwalk CT and Boynton Beach FL
In spite of what the synthetic oil manufacturers say, I always change my oil every 5,000 miles on my daily driver (BMW) and because I use my Vette a lot less, I change the VETTE oil once per year which is about 3,500 miles. When you see how black the oil is at 5,000 miles, you know it has to come out. But at 165,000 miles, if the rest of the car is in good shape and you plan on keeping it, I'd look at maybe buying a crate engine and swapping you old tired engine out. These days, all brand new crate engines are usually cheaper, faster and more dependable than a complete rebuild --- but that's just my opinion.
Good luck with whatever path you decide to go down.
Good luck with whatever path you decide to go down.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,471
Likes: 1,171
From: Dyer, IN
That's a good list. Thanks.
I have owned the car since day 1, and except for very rare and very short duration trips by my kids ( a single trip to the grocery store by my better driving daughter and son) I have put probably 164.75 of the 165k miles on it. Oil level has never been low, so unless an internal blockage leading to localized starvation has occurred, that's not an issue. Same with overheating - which is what my favorite mechanic said caused oil to look like that. I guess a blocked galley could lead to local effects on the oil, resulting in breakdown. Never seen low oil pressure, and although I have had an undiagnosed slow coolant loss issue, I have never seen the engine temp read above 212. Always have used Mobile1, and have followed the dashboard-indicated intervals - which makes me think the 10k plus interval as shown on the dic are probably not realistic...
My friendly mechanic, an old European car specialist, said he'd never seen so much sludge buildup. This friend suggested a letter to Mobile1 manufacturers, as he thinks these long interval oil life recommendations are misguided.
I am doing a pretty thorough top rebuild (cleaning up valvetrain, head surfacing, new lifters and springs) but to dig into the block??? not sure I really want to go there without a definite goal in mind. I am more inclined to go with above recommendations to run some high detergent oil/additive for a few cycles, drain, rinse and repeat till it comes out clean...
I have owned the car since day 1, and except for very rare and very short duration trips by my kids ( a single trip to the grocery store by my better driving daughter and son) I have put probably 164.75 of the 165k miles on it. Oil level has never been low, so unless an internal blockage leading to localized starvation has occurred, that's not an issue. Same with overheating - which is what my favorite mechanic said caused oil to look like that. I guess a blocked galley could lead to local effects on the oil, resulting in breakdown. Never seen low oil pressure, and although I have had an undiagnosed slow coolant loss issue, I have never seen the engine temp read above 212. Always have used Mobile1, and have followed the dashboard-indicated intervals - which makes me think the 10k plus interval as shown on the dic are probably not realistic...
My friendly mechanic, an old European car specialist, said he'd never seen so much sludge buildup. This friend suggested a letter to Mobile1 manufacturers, as he thinks these long interval oil life recommendations are misguided.
I am doing a pretty thorough top rebuild (cleaning up valvetrain, head surfacing, new lifters and springs) but to dig into the block??? not sure I really want to go there without a definite goal in mind. I am more inclined to go with above recommendations to run some high detergent oil/additive for a few cycles, drain, rinse and repeat till it comes out clean...
1) External leaks
2) Internal leaks i.e. coolant in the oil, buring, etc.
...and yes, coolant in the oil will create sludge.
If you have that type of sludge build up, and don't see that as a problem that warrants a rebuild at 165K miles............good luck with that.
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 34
Likes: 1
From: BLACKSBURG VA
I believe you are correct, lucky. where is the leak? the head gaskets looked ok, but that must certainly be the most likely location. how do i find the leak if it is in the block? or do i just replace the whole thing?
Addendum:
I now am certain that there is a small pinhole leak of coolant into the oil system, probably in the block somewhere. When I did the pressure test on the cooling system via a pump/cap on the overflow tank, there was no external leakage, and no drop in pressure. But would one expect any drop in pressure if the leak was very small - say, a few teaspoonsfull over the 12 hours I had the cooling system pressurized? Of course not - that much volume loss would make no difference in the pressure. But over time, those teaspoonsfull become pints, and quarts of coolant, and the result is large amounts of sludge buildup. Case closed.
If my car had 65k miles instead of 165k, I'd replace the engine. But I think I'll try a can of stop-leak. I was hesitant to do so before, but now I see that as the only realistic way to possibly get to 200k on this motor.
Addendum:
I now am certain that there is a small pinhole leak of coolant into the oil system, probably in the block somewhere. When I did the pressure test on the cooling system via a pump/cap on the overflow tank, there was no external leakage, and no drop in pressure. But would one expect any drop in pressure if the leak was very small - say, a few teaspoonsfull over the 12 hours I had the cooling system pressurized? Of course not - that much volume loss would make no difference in the pressure. But over time, those teaspoonsfull become pints, and quarts of coolant, and the result is large amounts of sludge buildup. Case closed.
If my car had 65k miles instead of 165k, I'd replace the engine. But I think I'll try a can of stop-leak. I was hesitant to do so before, but now I see that as the only realistic way to possibly get to 200k on this motor.
Last edited by portney; Aug 20, 2012 at 07:30 AM. Reason: additional thooughts
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,471
Likes: 1,171
From: Dyer, IN
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 34
Likes: 1
From: BLACKSBURG VA
Followup on top rebuild
OK I removed the heads and oilpan cover, cleaned things up, had the cylinder heads resurfaced, with new valve springs and stem seals, replaced lifters, and replaced the water pump. put it all back together. no extra washers, nuts, or bolts left lying around on the garage floor. 
Started in 3 seconds of cranking, and I ran the engine for 20 minutes to bring it to temp, with generic (Advance AP)5W-30 oil, and a Fram Ultra filter. Revved it a few times, then shut down and drained immediately (lots of suspended particulates in dark brown oil), then added Pennzoil Ultra, and a high capacity Bosch filter.
Drove normally for 1000 miles, including short runs to work and back, around town, and one 300 miles round trip at normal (79 mph) speed. Added one can of Gunk engine flush, and ran (not drove) for 5 minutes at temperature, drained. Oil was dark, but not black, and no particles settled out in clear class container of captured drained oil.
Mobile 1 5W30 and another Bosch high capacity filter installed.
Now have about 1500 miles since rebuild, and it looks like coolant level is holding.
Plan is to drive 3-5k, then change again.
Started in 3 seconds of cranking, and I ran the engine for 20 minutes to bring it to temp, with generic (Advance AP)5W-30 oil, and a Fram Ultra filter. Revved it a few times, then shut down and drained immediately (lots of suspended particulates in dark brown oil), then added Pennzoil Ultra, and a high capacity Bosch filter.
Drove normally for 1000 miles, including short runs to work and back, around town, and one 300 miles round trip at normal (79 mph) speed. Added one can of Gunk engine flush, and ran (not drove) for 5 minutes at temperature, drained. Oil was dark, but not black, and no particles settled out in clear class container of captured drained oil.
Mobile 1 5W30 and another Bosch high capacity filter installed.
Now have about 1500 miles since rebuild, and it looks like coolant level is holding.
Plan is to drive 3-5k, then change again.
Pro
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 553
Likes: 0
From: Cape Coral Florida
by listing to the manufaturer. 10k is way too much you just proved it. all the manufacture wants is it too last till the warranty is gone then you will buy a new one. if you cut the maintenance shcedule in half the car will last twice as long. i hear this all the time on the diesel forum, guys try to go 20k on there oil with 400hp engines and at 40k there engine is shot. so what did they save.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 87,375
Likes: 1,593
From: Western NY
UPDATE...of sorts.
I changed the oil on the C-5 over the weekend, because it was relatively warm, with colder weather in the near future. As I had mentioned earlier in this discussion, I had used Pennzoil Platinum last summer, and my engine seemed quieter. When I put the car back on the road this year, I put Mobil1 in it, because I still had some left over from a big sale that Wally World had 2-3 year ago, when I bought something like 18 or 24 quarts.
Autozone has an internet sale going on currently, 5 qts. of Pennzoil Platinum, and a K&N oil filter for $32. (you place the order online, and do a pick-up at the store) I put the Pennzoil in on Saturday AM, and have driven the car around for the last 2 days, and once again, just as it did last year, the car seems quieter.....
I changed the oil on the C-5 over the weekend, because it was relatively warm, with colder weather in the near future. As I had mentioned earlier in this discussion, I had used Pennzoil Platinum last summer, and my engine seemed quieter. When I put the car back on the road this year, I put Mobil1 in it, because I still had some left over from a big sale that Wally World had 2-3 year ago, when I bought something like 18 or 24 quarts.
Autozone has an internet sale going on currently, 5 qts. of Pennzoil Platinum, and a K&N oil filter for $32. (you place the order online, and do a pick-up at the store) I put the Pennzoil in on Saturday AM, and have driven the car around for the last 2 days, and once again, just as it did last year, the car seems quieter.....
Pro
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 653
Likes: 0
BJs has a deal on Shell Synthetic, might be time to try something different.
Did Exxon-Mobil change the formulation of Mobil-1 some time this year??
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Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 34
Likes: 1
From: BLACKSBURG VA
Looking for advice on a new, but related issue...
Driving to the gym this morning, car suddenly, and with a loud "thud", lost power to the rear wheels. Engine running fine, able to shift, and seemed at first like the problem was the clutch. Now, after putting it up on the lift, and noodling around a bit, seems more likely the problem is in the transmission.
Since engine is running well, and in addition, she has new tires, new seats, and recently rebuilt top half of engine, I am facing the age old dilemma - replace transmission(2004, manual transmission with 165,000 miles), only to have more issues in a few months, or just give up??? The car is the best one I've ever owned, and I do not want to get a new one. It is old, and a paint job is in order, but otherwise, all systems are good.
I love this vehicle, but should I just give up? I guess my specific question/need for advice concerns cost. How much will a new/rebuilt transmission cost? Is replacement a reasonably doable thing for a weekend warrior? Anyone out there done this in their garage?
If this post should be put in a new thread, please let me know, or admin take care of it...
DT MacMillan
Driving to the gym this morning, car suddenly, and with a loud "thud", lost power to the rear wheels. Engine running fine, able to shift, and seemed at first like the problem was the clutch. Now, after putting it up on the lift, and noodling around a bit, seems more likely the problem is in the transmission.
Since engine is running well, and in addition, she has new tires, new seats, and recently rebuilt top half of engine, I am facing the age old dilemma - replace transmission(2004, manual transmission with 165,000 miles), only to have more issues in a few months, or just give up??? The car is the best one I've ever owned, and I do not want to get a new one. It is old, and a paint job is in order, but otherwise, all systems are good.
I love this vehicle, but should I just give up? I guess my specific question/need for advice concerns cost. How much will a new/rebuilt transmission cost? Is replacement a reasonably doable thing for a weekend warrior? Anyone out there done this in their garage?
If this post should be put in a new thread, please let me know, or admin take care of it...
DT MacMillan
Pro
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 647
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From: Norwalk CT and Boynton Beach FL
Lets face it, nothing lasts forever and with 165,000 miles on your baby, unless you want to spend most of your free time under your Corvette rather than driving it, it's time to trade UP. I just traded in my BMW with 110,000 miles on her and things were just starting to go every few months --- not big stuff yet, but looking down the road I could see would would probably be coming up (water pump, alternator, master cylinder, radiator, struts, calipers, rotors, --- and then there is the risk of the transmisssion, diff, A/C and any of the electronics). Time to trade this baby in before any of the big stuff hits. You have to know when to PUNT. That's my two cents ---- GOOD LUCK !
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Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 87,375
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From: Western NY
Transmissions don't usually give up all at once with a "thud". It usually starts with an annoying whine, that gets increasingly louder.
With respect to your car, if it's in good shape, body and interior wise, and you really like it, it might be worth looking for a good, honest, and reasonable Corvette mechanic. Sometimes, repairs can be more cost effective than selling off.
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 34
Likes: 1
From: BLACKSBURG VA
I think I'll just start to remove the rear end (lots of good diy threads here, with pictures(I love this forum)), and see what the actual problem is. I assume that, as it is undriveable now, it wouldn't lose any trade-in "value" by having been partially disassembled. Either a cheaper fix or a new car is definitely in store. Thanks for the responses, and Happy New Year!
Cruising
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: Memphis TN
Ticking noise from motor
can anyone help me I have this ticking noise from the motor an it's bout to drive me crazy it's embrassing what should I do take it to shop but I hate to get sift I haven't lost any power what could it be the lifters I would hate to put lifters in an it still tick someone help!!!!
Cruising
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: Frisco TX
So has anyone had any luck with a thicker oil to quiet the tapping noise? I'm about to hit 70k on my 02' and was thinking on 15-40 mobil 1 high mileage. The high mileage has more zinc correct? Also, is there any recommended additive to put into the oil in these before the oil change to free up any sludge that may be stuck around the lifters?
Pro
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 647
Likes: 22
From: Norwalk CT and Boynton Beach FL
I used to get that ticking sound when I first started up the car --- then it would go away after a few minutes. Last oil change I added a bottle of ZDDP to the oil and it seems I rarely hear that ticking sound anymore ---- not completely gone, but I think I only heard it only once all summer. Change the oil and give ZDDP a try ---- but I wouldn't go to the thicker oil. Many of these engines have a piston slap when the engine is cold so maybe that is what you are hearing. Still, I'd give a fresh oil change and ZDDP a try. Good luck and let us know how things turn out for you.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
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From Jan, 2013 post:
What was the verdict?? 
I think I'll just start to remove the rear end (lots of good diy threads here, with pictures(I love this forum)), and see what the actual problem is. I assume that, as it is undriveable now, it wouldn't lose any trade-in "value" by having been partially disassembled. Either a cheaper fix or a new car is definitely in store. Thanks for the responses, and Happy New Year!
Cruising
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: Frisco TX
I used to get that ticking sound when I first started up the car --- then it would go away after a few minutes. Last oil change I added a bottle of ZDDP to the oil and it seems I rarely hear that ticking sound anymore ---- not completely gone, but I think I only heard it only once all summer. Change the oil and give ZDDP a try ---- but I wouldn't go to the thicker oil. Many of these engines have a piston slap when the engine is cold so maybe that is what you are hearing. Still, I'd give a fresh oil change and ZDDP a try. Good luck and let us know how things turn out for you.
Yea mines only in the mornings after sitting over night, once the engine warms up I cant hear it. What brand oil do you use? Can you get the ZDDP at an automotive store or do you have to order it online? I'd like to find something at a store as I'm doing the oil tomorrow. I've also heard using a higher flowing filter like k&N helps a little.
Pro
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 647
Likes: 22
From: Norwalk CT and Boynton Beach FL
I bought my ZDDP online (I bought a 6 pack) --- but you can always add it later after you do your oil change. It's just a small bottle (4 or 6 ounces) so no worries about over-filling oil after you add it. I will be doing my oil change today also.