I recently purchased some ATE Superblue brake fluid. Any problems with just pouring the ATE in with the current DOT 3 stock fluid that is currently in the MC and bleeding the system until I start to see blue fluid? I know I'm not suppose to let the resovoir get dry. Is it ok to do this?? Anybody have any tips on doing this?? Do I need to have the ACC/IG on?? Thanks for your help...I've never done this before!! :eek:

 

I DONT KNOW WHAT TYPE OF FLUID YOU PURCHASED BUT YOU CAN NOT MIX SYNTHETIC WITH DOT3 ALL OF THE SEALS WILL SWELL AND YOU WILL HAVE TO REPLACE EVERYTHING. EMPTY THE MASTER CYLINDER FILL WITH NEW AND YOU NEED TO USE A PRESSURE OR VACUUM SYSTEM RUN PLENTY THROUGH THE SYSTEM.

 

I heard that you can lock up the ABS if you let the MC run dry as you suggest??!! Is there any truth to that...And by the way the guy who sold me the ATE Superblue said it wouldnt be a problem pouring in/over my existing stock fluid?? Good thing I have asked I guess?? Anybody Else???

ZOOMNZ

 

I did the same thing you're about to do 1 1/2 weeks ago. I took out as much of the OEM fluid as I could from the master cylinder and then added the ATE fluid on top. I used a turkey baster to suck up the fluid. I then bled the calipers until the blue coloring started coming through. I bled a bit more from the first caliper to make sure I got rid of the little bit of mixed fluid. The ATE fluid and the OEM fluid are compatible, so you don't need to worry about that.

To bleed the brakes, you don't need to turn the car on, so the keys can stay out of the ignition. You'll need a couple of feet of clear 1/4 inch inside diameter tubing from a harware store. You'll also need a 10 mm wrench to open the bleed screws. The bleed screws are bottom back of the rear calipers and right at the top of the front calipers. They are easy to find because they are covered with a small rubber cap to keep them clean. Pull the cap off and put the tubing over the nipple. Put the other end in a jar or jug to catch the brake fluid. If you've not altered the car, you'll need a helper to help you out. Have your helper sit in the driver's seat. Open the bleed screw 1/2 turn and have your helper press the brake pedal to the floor and hold it there. Close the bleed screw and then tell your helper to release the pedal. Repeat this process until you've pumped out the old fluid. Make sure you keep the master cylinder from ever going dry. I try to keep it between 1/2 full and full to be safe.

The GM recommended order for bleeding the calipers differs depending on the year of your car. The 98-2000 cars should go RR, LR, RF, LF. The 2001-2002 cars should be RR, LF, LR, RF. I don't know why they changed it, but they did. When you're done at each caliper, don't overtighten the bleed screw. Put the cap back on to keep the nipple clean.

Also don't get brake fluid on anything, especially the paint. It will eat the paint.

- Mark

 

Mark...Excellent tips...thanks!! I'm glad you told me about the bleeding order..I have an 01 and was about to do it the other way (RR,LR,RF,LF) :eek: I also did not realize that I need to open the bleeder valve! I bought a vacuum pump to help me with the process...Hopefully I can do this by myself... :crazy: Thanks for your tips!!

ZOOMNZ

 

One thing I do the first time I bleed is to fully remove the screw (put your finger over the hole so a ton of fluid won't come out) and put a dab of grease on the threads. If you have ever had a frozen bleed screw break off you will understand why I do this.

 

get some speedbleeders Too. :cheers:

 

I recently bled my brakes for the first time after 2 years. The "old" fluid is quite discernable as it was a little black, even in the M.C. resevoir. Does this indicate that any contaminents in the fluid migrate through the system to become evenly dispersed? Anyhow, you can replace the M.C. fluid and bleed the lines, but you probably can't get all the old fluid out of the caliper cylinders and you certainly can't get it out of the Anti-Lock unit without the Goodwrench "Tickler." So, some of the "old" fluid ,with whatever is in it that makes it black, will eventually migrate through the system. This situation is probably acceptable and is very similar to the service procedure for automatic transmissions where only about half the transmission fluid comes out of the pan. This is all the more reason to do frequent blake fluid bleeds. I wonder what racers do because of the high caliper temperatures they experience? :yesnod:

 

It depends on the person. Many will flush out all the old fluid with new fluid a few days before a track session. Brake fluid absorbs moisure from the air which decreases its boiling point. If the brake fluild boils, you lose your brakes, which is very bad when racing. So fresh fluid is the most resistant to heat. Others will use a very high quality racing brake fluid that has higher boiling points and which can stay in the car for longer periods.

- Mark

 

How much fluid did it take to flush out the brake system?

 

It takes a little less than 1 liter. The ATE Superblue fluid is nice because you can see the color change in the fluid when its bled. Its harder to tell when the old and new fluid are the same color.

- Mark

 

Thanks Mark! Hope you are having more comfortable weather in MN that we are in Atlanta. Its about 90 w/ a heat index of 95.

 

Has anyone actually counted how many brake pumps it takes at each caliper to get new fluid (assuming you drained/filled the master cylinder)? I didn't when I had old fluid and now that it's clean, it's hard to tell (without changing colors like with the ATE).

Thanks


[Modified by willi, 12:01 PM 6/4/2002]

 

Mark, I hope your location of the bleeders on the rear calipers is a typo. The bleeders should be in the side of the caliper towards the centerline of the car, near the top, not the bottom. If it's on the bottom, your rear calipers are on backwards!

Sam

 

Hmmm... I typed this from memory and I know that they aren't exactly on the top like the fronts. I suppose my memory let me down. I don't think my calipers are on wrong since they haven't been removed from the car since it was new. Thanks for correcting the location description.

- Mark

 

As has been said elsewhere, brake fluid absorbs water (one of the reasons for flushing your system at a minimum every two years). I'm not sure if the black discoloration is due to the water-saturated fluid breaking down or a sign of aluminum corrosion. One thing's for sure, if your fluid is black, get it flushed!

Also, the clutch system uses the same type of fluid, with the same characteristics. The easiest way I know of to change out the clutch fluid is to suck all the old fluid out of the clutch reservoir, wipe it out with a clean cloth, and refill. You'll see old black fluid start to migrate almost immediately. I then check the fluid frequently (weekly or more frequently) and change out the fluid whenever it's discolored. After several fluid changes (which take just a couple of minutes each), the discoloration lessens to the point that I declare success and move on to the next crisis. ;)

Hope this helps,
Mike

 

Sounds like you got great great info,its sure great to have a power bleeder
as always even though there not our parts if you run into a snag just call us 480-517-4969 and we will be happy to walk you through.Once you do it its like riding a bike.Sometimes people have to bleed twice if you can have a BUD there to help keep the bleeder screws from sucking in air its helpful.Also take some windex and thorouly clean the exterrior of the M/C and even the 1/32" goove up top I use a towel and a flat screw driver edge,also windex you vacume booster so not even a micron of dirt enters a environment of its own sealed from the worls and be verl careful use a fender cover and towel and DONT lay the can on ANY painted surface.

Its a snap and you will be fine again feel free to call if your stuck.Dave S. XTREME M.S. Customer Svce Dept.

 

quote,
The GM recommended order for bleeding the calipers differs depending on the year of your car. The 98-2000 cars should go RR, LR, RF, LF. The 2001-2002 cars should be RR, LF, LR, RF. I don't know why they changed it, but they did.

Mark do you think this was a typo for the 2001-2002, I have never heard are used this bleeding sequence. Also you should pump the brake and put some presser on the brake caliper to force the air out of the system before you open the bleeder. Not, open the bleeder and then pump.

 

I have the GM manual on my computer. "The 2001-2002 cars should be RR, LF, LR, RF." is correct. Here is the entire section on bleeding brakes from the manual:
http://www.speedbleeder.com are nice also. I got them on the way with some ATE Superblue fluid. $8 a quart on ebay.

Steps 1-3 are for bleeding the master cylinder.

4. Fill the brake master cylinder reservoir with Delco Supreme 11® (GM P/N 12377967) or equivalent DOT-3 brake fluid from a clean, sealed brake fluid container. Ensure that the brake master cylinder reservoir remains at least half-full during this bleeding procedure. Add fluid as needed to maintain the proper level. Clean the outside of the reservoir on and around the reservoir cap prior to removing the cap and diaphragm, when cap removal is necessary.

5. Install a proper box-end wrench onto the RIGHT REAR wheel hydraulic circuit bleeder valve, then install a transparent hose over the end of the bleeder valve.

6. Submerge the open end of the transparent hose into a transparent container partially filled with Delco Supreme 11® (GM P/N 12377967) or equivalent DOT-3 brake fluid from a clean, sealed brake fluid container.

7. Have an assistant slowly depress the brake pedal fully and maintain pedal position.

8. Loosen the bleeder valve to purge air from the wheel hydraulic circuit.

9. Tighten the bleeder valve, then have the assistant slowly release the brake pedal.

10. Wait 15 seconds, then repeat steps 7-9 until all air is purged from the same wheel hydraulic circuit.

11. With the right rear wheel hydraulic circuit bleeder valve tightened securely, (after all air has been purged from the right rear hydraulic circuit), install a proper box-end wrench onto the LEFT FRONT wheel hydraulic circuit bleeder valve, install a transparent hose over the end of the bleeder valve, then repeat steps 6-10.

12. With the left front wheel hydraulic circuit bleeder valve tightened securely, (after all air has been purged from the left front hydraulic circuit), install a proper box-end wrench onto the LEFT REAR wheel hydraulic circuit bleeder valve, install a transparent hose over the end of the bleeder valve, then repeat steps 6-10.

13. With the left rear wheel hydraulic circuit bleeder valve tightened securely, (after all air has been purged from the left rear hydraulic circuit), install a proper box-end wrench onto the RIGHT FRONT wheel hydraulic circuit bleeder valve, install a transparent hose over the end of the bleeder valve, then repeat steps 6-10.

14. After completing the final wheel hydraulic circuit bleeding procedure, ensure that each of the 4 wheel hydraulic circuit bleeder valves are properly tightened.

15. Fill the brake master cylinder reservoir to the maximum-fill level with Delco Supreme 11® (GM P/N 12377967) or equivalent DOT-3 brake fluid from a clean, sealed brake fluid container.

16. Slowly depress and release the brake pedal. Observe the feel of the brake pedal.

17. If the brake pedal feels spongy, repeat the bleeding procedure again. If the brake pedal still feels spongy after repeating the bleeding procedure, perform the following steps:
Inspect the brake system for external leaks. Refer to Brake System External Leak Inspection .
Pressure bleed the hydraulic brake system in order to purge any air that may still be trapped in the system.

18. Turn the ignition key ON, with the engine OFF. Check to see if the brake system warning lamp remains illuminated.

19. If the brake system warning lamp remains illuminated, DO NOT allow the vehicle to be driven until it is diagnosed and repaired.

 

gmblack3 is correct in that it takes a little under a liter of brake fluid to replace the master cylinder and the lines. At least this is all the old fluid you can get out by the two types of flushing procedures: pumping and sucking. One tip to avoid the PIA situation of running the MC dry and getting air into the system is to use a small jar of comparable volume to the MC resevoir. When this jar fills up, it is time to add fluid to the MC.

VetteDrmr came to the logical conclusion of how to get as much new fluid in both the brake and hydraulic clutch systems when you know you can't get all the old fluid out without completely disassembling the system. It may be a little tedious, but you can flush/replace, drive around a little until the remaining old mixes/migrates with the new, and flush replace again. If you know what the total capacity of the system is and how much new you truly add when you replace, then you can caluculate what percentage of old is in the system after two, three or more back to back flush/replacements. It might be intersesting so see how the boiling point of brake fluid is lowered as a function of percentage of water contamination. :cheers: