good luck installing the pushrods with the rockers in the way

 

First, that's not what I said. Second, you will get the correct torque but the bolt preload may be low as a result. The point is, if the torque value is hit and the rocker isn't bottomed, then as soon as the load from the valve spring is removed the rocker will be loose.

 

If the same thing occurs, swap one that moved for one that didn't and see if the problem follows the rocker. That isolates it to either the rocker or the aluminum saddle if there is a mechanical issue.

 

You realize that post wasn't in response to yours, right?

And I don't disagree with anything above. The point was the reason the rocker twists is because of the pressure being exerted by the pushrod. Yes, you can power through it, and get the rocker pinned down regardless while fighting against the lifter spring more than you should be. But as you said, the preload will be off.

 

You should really step away from this thread. You are giving poor advice. I'm no expert engine builder, but even I know not to torque down a rocker on an open valve.

 

 

Two things happen when you tighten against the valve spring. One, there is a risk of pulling the aluminum threads. These bolts have a lot of engagement, but in the end why risk it. Second, the bolt is preloaded less than prescribed. Torque only measures the resistance to turning, such that other factors like the valve spring force or thread lubrication can make huge differences on the final bolt preload or stretch. It is this preload that keeps the assembled joint together. A force equal to the preload will separate the joint, so as a result with less actual bolt preload it takes less load to separate the final joint. Will it separate with the method you used, maybe or maybe not but again why risk it.

 

So not only did you do it wrong the first time, you purposely did it wrong again. The logic used here is crazy. Now I know why Lucky left this forum.

 

Well Those are pretty stong words and a way of calling me and my experience are those of an idiot----
Basically it's just "your opinion" vs "my opinion"---
You're are saying the preload is on the lifter spring ???
The preload is the same if the engine is running or not--so you would mean that the lifter spring holds the lash while it's running as well- at 6000 RPM ??--That makes no sense---- The oil holds the "0" lash--running or not !!
The poster also doesn't provide enough information in the beginning of his post about his rocker installation procedure-He later uses other peoples suggestions to correctly find each cylinder's TDC
He says : " a few of them rotate a little bit when I get them tight"
He NEVER says : (as you somehow read) "They rotate out of place"
I've adjusted 1000's and 1000's of hydraulic lifters both roller and flat tappet---I was suggesting ( as he didn't privide an accurate description) what the most common issue is for a rocker to "jiggle" slightly after torqued or for the push rod to spin after torqued---
You can set lifter preload on adjustable type rockers (SBC/BBC) and after a few minutes most all of them will seem to loosen up-Even if you continue tightening them up---Same goes for rocker stand non adj. rockers as on a LS engine
Perhaps it's just a difference in word assignment or preception of what someone thinks he's reading----Regardless there's no excuse for saying blatantly that my "opinion" is NO or wrong----I am entitled to it--
PS: I don't agree with your's at all-it makes no sense "to me"

 

I never said you were an idiot. I said you were wrong. There is a difference you know.

Correct, contrary to popular belief lifters can be installed dry and have their preloads set just fine.

Please quote where I said the spring was responsible for maintaining 0 lash at redline. Is that how you set your rockers? At redline? The oil also provides resistance same as the spring to movement of the cup in the lifter bore. But that is not what you're tightening against when the engine is not running and there is no oil pressure.


No, you should try more reading and less assuming because that is precisely what he said. Here's where you're walking that fine line between being an illiterate idiot and just being wrong. Reread his first post. He's not talking about the pushrod spinning in the rocker cup and/or the rocker jiggling due to excessive lash. He's talking about the rocker itself rotating clockwise slightly as he tightens the nut.

Try just reading the boldfaced parts below

Look at the pic. See how the rocker tip isn't quite centered over the valve stem. THAT'S what he's talking about. Not lash, not a spinning pushrod, and not a jiggling rocker

 

Wow, all these posts over something simple.

You want an easy way? Do it like this;
Exhaust valve begins to open - install intake rocker (or adjust intake valve).
Intake valve justs closed - install exhaust rocker (or adjust exhaust valve).

EOIC

 

Brilliant!

 

"good luck installing the pushrods with the rockers in the way."

Umm.... duh.... ummm.. oops...ummm, I knew that. What can I say? It was a senior moment....

 

This is how I did the job, back in early 2011, and had no issues.....

 

Not gonna argue about this anymore--But to be as bold as you---Sorry WCSINX but your interpretation is simply CRAZY!!!
And the rocker is not out of place it appears it's just a little loose from having the oil beed out most likely from the engine sitting a long time with the valvetrain out---
Why to all manufacturers tell you to "soak all new lifters in oil " overnight before installing ??? beacuse they need to fill with oil so they aren't bottomed out when you go to set the pre-load----

 

I didn't "interpret" anything. I merely told you what the OP said and showed you his picture. You accuse me of having a reading problem when it's quite obvious that you either didn't fully read or understand the first post.

Ok, NOW you're an idiot. If you think that it's ok for the rocker tip to be offset from the valve stem like that, then you need to put down the tools permanently. Have you ever assembled an engine that held together for that matter? Ponder this. Even a "loose" rocker which is to say one with excessive lash will NOT rotate side to side like that. They will "rock" up and down as per their normal range of motion but not side to side. I would like you to study these pictures very carefully.




See the big ole bearing on either side of those rockers? See how the fastener goes right through the middle of the rod those bearings (and hence the rockers) are mounted on securing it to the saddle bar? Now in order to induce a CW or CCW rotation on the rocker tip, you'd need play in that bearing. Right? And if you've got enough play to allow the amount of rocker tip movement pictured by the OP, then your chit won't hold together for very long.

YOU are thinking of old school stamped steel rockers found in Gen1s et. al. like this...



And yes, if you open up enough lash, those indeed can and will pivot side to side ever so slightly. That however is NOT the case on any rocker used in any LS series engine. You could install the f**king things without even putting pushrods or valves in at all and they still won't rotate like that. And if you can't look at that first picture and see that for your damned old self, then yes you are a good old fashioned idiot.

Get your head out of the 60's. This has been beaten to death over in C3 tech. It's not a necessary step. Maybe at one point it was, but I really doubt it. Lifters bleed down without oil pressure regardless. So if you did indeed need hydraulic pressure to set preload, then by the time you got to valve #16, you'd be working with a different torque setting than you did on valve #1.

And think about this. Are you pressurizing anything by soaking lifters in oil?

 

HTF does the arguement here has any relevance to the installation of rockers on this engine? You set the lifter pre-load by pushrod length and you install the rockers until they are tight at 22ft-lbs of torque. The lifter having oil in it or bleeding down doesn't make one rats-*** bit of difference on the installation of these rockers.

 

fixed

 

It wasn't wrong. What you wrote is true too. However, on an older SB adjusting the lifters the first time empty or filled with oil could "feel" a little different. You still want the same end result.

Not that it matters here, but I typically do the rockers before installing the intake on an SB or BB so I can look at the lifter preload. Then, I install the intake and before firing pre-oil until I have oil at all the rockers.

 

I know. I wasn't actually correcting you...just using you really