C5 LS1 damper questions
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 719
Likes: 21
From: Miami Fl
C5 LS1 damper questions
a couple questions
what is the proper way to keep the engine from spinning when removing the damper bolt?
I used a old steel differential carrier clamp wedged on one of the fins and resting on the cross member to loosen the bolt.
when I took off the damper I did not mark the position relative to the crank since it doesn't have a alingment key I figured its position wasn't important.
Do you need to mark the position of the damper to the crank. I've read in some forum threads that you do and others that you don't.
obviously I didn't do it and I'm just wondering if there might be vibration issues.
torque is 240 ft lbs for the bolt right?
what is the proper way to keep the engine from spinning when removing the damper bolt?
I used a old steel differential carrier clamp wedged on one of the fins and resting on the cross member to loosen the bolt.
when I took off the damper I did not mark the position relative to the crank since it doesn't have a alingment key I figured its position wasn't important.
Do you need to mark the position of the damper to the crank. I've read in some forum threads that you do and others that you don't.
obviously I didn't do it and I'm just wondering if there might be vibration issues.
torque is 240 ft lbs for the bolt right?
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,341
Likes: 8
From: Hopatcong New Jersey
The proper way to keep the crank from spinning is to use a Kent-Moore J-42386-A flywheel lock. Other people have used other methods with success though.
Also, GM bolts get torqued to 37ft lbs THEN 140 degrees and are torque to yield one time use bolts. ARP bolts get torqued to 240ft lbs.
Just curious, why are you removing the damper? Are you replacing it with a new one?
Also, GM bolts get torqued to 37ft lbs THEN 140 degrees and are torque to yield one time use bolts. ARP bolts get torqued to 240ft lbs.
Just curious, why are you removing the damper? Are you replacing it with a new one?
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 719
Likes: 21
From: Miami Fl
The proper way to keep the crank from spinning is to use a Kent-Moore J-42386-A flywheel lock. Other people have used other methods with success though.
Also, GM bolts get torqued to 37ft lbs THEN 140 degrees and are torque to yield one time use bolts. ARP bolts get torqued to 240ft lbs.
Just curious, why are you removing the damper? Are you replacing it with a new one?
Also, GM bolts get torqued to 37ft lbs THEN 140 degrees and are torque to yield one time use bolts. ARP bolts get torqued to 240ft lbs.
Just curious, why are you removing the damper? Are you replacing it with a new one?
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,341
Likes: 8
From: Hopatcong New Jersey
Found this:
Plenty of people have removed and installed their balancer without marking/transferring weights though.
For what it's worth, now would be a good time to ditch the stock balancer which is known to fail and come apart with an aftermarket balancer.
Plenty of people have removed and installed their balancer without marking/transferring weights though.
For what it's worth, now would be a good time to ditch the stock balancer which is known to fail and come apart with an aftermarket balancer.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 719
Likes: 21
From: Miami Fl
Well this is a A4 04 ls1 engine it seems it might not apply.
regardless i didnt see any weights on it. just small holes in front in an uneven pattern along the perimeter.
Thanks for the GM article man its really detailed
regardless i didnt see any weights on it. just small holes in front in an uneven pattern along the perimeter.
Thanks for the GM article man its really detailed
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 24,160
Likes: 78
Are there many (any?) documented cases of final balancing being done on the harmonic dampeners of LS1/6s? I've heard of the FW weights but never on the dampeners. 
Last edited by wcsinx; Nov 20, 2012 at 02:44 PM.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 535
Likes: 0
From: CA
They exist. GM usually marks them with paint and are a press fit. I have never transferred them to the new balancer though. The transfer of weights on the balancer is only applicable if using an OE balancer. I always take the OE balancer's off and toss them in the trash. The OE balancer is good for a few things... 1) a door stop 2) a wheel chuck 3) anchor for a kayak 4) collecting in a pile to show customers what a pos the stock balances are. GM only use/used these balancer for cost reasons.... do yourself a favor and upgrade
Last edited by 69SSC5; Nov 20, 2012 at 03:57 PM.
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer
Brett Foote
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
It matters more on MN6/MN12 cars more than it matters on automatics. I have an 02 ZO6 and installed a power bone dampener. It doesnt have ballance holes so, I couldnt transfer the weights on the oem dampener.
I did not have any vibrations after the damper replacement. Later i replaced the fly wheel, clutch and pressure palte with a SPEC Duel Disk. I had the new fly wheel off set balanced to the old one. No vibrations on the new installation!
Be careful on that damper bolt!!!
If it were me, I woulod just purchase an ARP bolt;
heres how I held the engine from turning! I used a BIG strap wrench and I rented the 0-250 ft/lb wrench from Autozone. It was a one man job!
I did not have any vibrations after the damper replacement. Later i replaced the fly wheel, clutch and pressure palte with a SPEC Duel Disk. I had the new fly wheel off set balanced to the old one. No vibrations on the new installation!
Be careful on that damper bolt!!!
If it were me, I woulod just purchase an ARP bolt;heres how I held the engine from turning! I used a BIG strap wrench and I rented the 0-250 ft/lb wrench from Autozone. It was a one man job!
Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 87,357
Likes: 1,592
From: Western NY
After doing ALL of that, I still have a couple of questions that don't seem to get discussed. If I choose to go with an ATI damper, how do you locate it properly on the crank? I know that it is degreed, and has a keyway already in it. But unlike the older LT1s, which had NO key in the pulley, but an empty keyslot in the crank, the LS1 crank doesn't have a keyslot, as far as I know.
If you install an ATI pulley, and don't "pin" it, are there any isssues? I'd be willing to go through the pinning process, but that raises another question or two. Where do you locate the pin? Do you line it up with whatever keyways are already in the crank snout? (there's one at the oil pump, correct?) Secondly, can you use ATI's drilling fixture with the water pump, alternator, etc in place? In other words, can the crank be drilled with doing nothing more than removing the OE damper?
If the ATI damper has a keyslot, how do you prevent oil from seeping out of the keyslot? And finally, while the ATI damper seems to be the "gold standard" in replacement parts, is there a more cost effective substitue for those who aren't racing?
TIA!!
Racer
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 302
Likes: 2
From: Baton Rouge LA
I've been contemplating doing a HB sawp as preventive maintenance, BEFORE I have problems. Because of this, I've been reading anything and everything I can find on the topic.
After doing ALL of that, I still have a couple of questions that don't seem to get discussed. If I choose to go with an ATI damper, how do you locate it properly on the crank? I know that it is degreed, and has a keyway already in it. But unlike the older LT1s, which had NO key in the pulley, but an empty keyslot in the crank, the LS1 crank doesn't have a keyslot, as far as I know.
If you install an ATI pulley, and don't "pin" it, are there any isssues? I'd be willing to go through the pinning process, but that raises another question or two. Where do you locate the pin? Do you line it up with whatever keyways are already in the crank snout? (there's one at the oil pump, correct?) Secondly, can you use ATI's drilling fixture with the water pump, alternator, etc in place? In other words, can the crank be drilled with doing nothing more than removing the OE damper?
If the ATI damper has a keyslot, how do you prevent oil from seeping out of the keyslot? And finally, while the ATI damper seems to be the "gold standard" in replacement parts, is there a more cost effective substitue for those who aren't racing?
TIA!!
After doing ALL of that, I still have a couple of questions that don't seem to get discussed. If I choose to go with an ATI damper, how do you locate it properly on the crank? I know that it is degreed, and has a keyway already in it. But unlike the older LT1s, which had NO key in the pulley, but an empty keyslot in the crank, the LS1 crank doesn't have a keyslot, as far as I know.
If you install an ATI pulley, and don't "pin" it, are there any isssues? I'd be willing to go through the pinning process, but that raises another question or two. Where do you locate the pin? Do you line it up with whatever keyways are already in the crank snout? (there's one at the oil pump, correct?) Secondly, can you use ATI's drilling fixture with the water pump, alternator, etc in place? In other words, can the crank be drilled with doing nothing more than removing the OE damper?
If the ATI damper has a keyslot, how do you prevent oil from seeping out of the keyslot? And finally, while the ATI damper seems to be the "gold standard" in replacement parts, is there a more cost effective substitue for those who aren't racing?
TIA!!
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
I've been contemplating doing a HB sawp as preventive maintenance, BEFORE I have problems. Because of this, I've been reading anything and everything I can find on the topic.
After doing ALL of that, I still have a couple of questions that don't seem to get discussed. If I choose to go with an ATI damper, how do you locate it properly on the crank? I know that it is degreed, and has a keyway already in it. But unlike the older LT1s, which had NO key in the pulley, but an empty keyslot in the crank, the LS1 crank doesn't have a keyslot, as far as I know.
If you install an ATI pulley, and don't "pin" it, are there any isssues? I'd be willing to go through the pinning process, but that raises another question or two. Where do you locate the pin? Do you line it up with whatever keyways are already in the crank snout? (there's one at the oil pump, correct?) Secondly, can you use ATI's drilling fixture with the water pump, alternator, etc in place? In other words, can the crank be drilled with doing nothing more than removing the OE damper?
If the ATI damper has a keyslot, how do you prevent oil from seeping out of the keyslot? And finally, while the ATI damper seems to be the "gold standard" in replacement parts, is there a more cost effective substitue for those who aren't racing?
TIA!!
After doing ALL of that, I still have a couple of questions that don't seem to get discussed. If I choose to go with an ATI damper, how do you locate it properly on the crank? I know that it is degreed, and has a keyway already in it. But unlike the older LT1s, which had NO key in the pulley, but an empty keyslot in the crank, the LS1 crank doesn't have a keyslot, as far as I know.
If you install an ATI pulley, and don't "pin" it, are there any isssues? I'd be willing to go through the pinning process, but that raises another question or two. Where do you locate the pin? Do you line it up with whatever keyways are already in the crank snout? (there's one at the oil pump, correct?) Secondly, can you use ATI's drilling fixture with the water pump, alternator, etc in place? In other words, can the crank be drilled with doing nothing more than removing the OE damper?
If the ATI damper has a keyslot, how do you prevent oil from seeping out of the keyslot? And finally, while the ATI damper seems to be the "gold standard" in replacement parts, is there a more cost effective substitue for those who aren't racing?
TIA!!
The damper locates easily over the key way.
NOTE.. You really only need to pin the crank if you go Forced Induction and will be driving a Belt Driven Blower or Supercharger. If your not adding a power adder, You do not need to worry about it. I did it because I had access to a friends pinning kit!
I couldnt believe how easy the process was!
Fit the drill fixture on the crank, drill the hole, reem and tap in the pin. DONE!Ya Know,,, I never considered oil leakage from the key way. Well,, On my installation,, I have NO leakage. When you seat the damper against the drive sprocket for the oil pump, I guess it seals enough to keep the oil out. I guess a small dab of silicone sealer around that area will make a positive seal. Plus, when you examine the damper bolt, it has a sealer on the flat head of the bolt that rest against the damper face.
Last edited by Bill Curlee; Dec 21, 2012 at 12:57 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 87,357
Likes: 1,592
From: Western NY
Bill, as always, thanks for the input. However, as usual, your reply brought up another question in my head....I'm assuming that you used the A&A pinning kit, or one like it, where you drill in from the front of the crank. When you drilled into the crank and HB, did you use the existing key slot on the HB, as part of the hole you drilled for the pin, or did you drill in another position?
Again, TIA!!
Again, TIA!!
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Bill, as always, thanks for the input. However, as usual, your reply brought up another question in my head....I'm assuming that you used the A&A pinning kit, or one like it, where you drill in from the front of the crank. When you drilled into the crank and HB, did you use the existing key slot on the HB, as part of the hole you drilled for the pin, or did you drill in another position?
Again, TIA!!
Again, TIA!!
http://www.atiracing.com/products/da...ex_ls1_pin.htm
http://www.atiracing.com/instructions/918993.pdf
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,315
Likes: 17
From: Near Jacksonville Fl.
NOTE.. You really only need to pin the crank if you go Forced Induction and will be driving a Belt Driven Blower or Supercharger. If your not adding a power adder, You do not need to worry about it.
Sorry Bill but I couldn't agree with this statement, if your going to the trouble of replacing the balancer it's foolish not to pin it.
If you do a search you will find many spun balancers on stock engines.
Sorry Bill but I couldn't agree with this statement, if your going to the trouble of replacing the balancer it's foolish not to pin it.
If you do a search you will find many spun balancers on stock engines.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
IF,,,,,,,,, the bolt is tightened properly and IF,,,, the damper has the correct press fit,, you should never have to worry about the damper spinning on the end of the crank without a pin.
I agree,, it a great idea to do it even if your not driving a power adder BUt,, normaly,, you dont need it. Its easy.
I have NEVER seen one spin without being pinned if it was done correctly.
Bill
I agree,, it a great idea to do it even if your not driving a power adder BUt,, normaly,, you dont need it. Its easy.
I have NEVER seen one spin without being pinned if it was done correctly.
Bill
