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No compression in #7 Cylinder..

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Old May 21, 2013 | 11:32 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Birdman
2) I might be able to borrow a ball hone from someone tomorrow morning..the walls look pretty smooth but why not. I'd try to cover up the crank the best I can or something.
See if you could somehow rig up a plastic bag underneath the cylinder so any honing debris fall down into the bag while doing the honing from the top.
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Old May 22, 2013 | 12:13 AM
  #42  
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My professional recommendations:
DO NOT reuse an old bearing on a different rod!!!!!!!! Install a NEW bearing!! Check the bearing clearances with micrometers or at least plastigage. IF, you use your old rod, you can reinstall the old bearing as long as its in good shape and not scored.

Use the OEM installed rod as that is where most of the weight variation will be balance wise. Your rod cap is a fracture fit so make sure that it goes back together properly and not misaligned.

You have the GM Low tension rings. If you like to run your engine at moderate RPMs 3000,4000 under light loads, you can cause a oil consumption issue. If you drive it normally, I wouldn't worry about it. IF, you don't change the rings, on all the other cylinders, run the same type of rings on #7 at the OEM rings.

Something caused #7 to blow. If you pull and inspect each piston, you can replace the low tension rings and clean the ring lands.

NOTE!!!!!! WARNING!!! When you reinstall your heads, MAKE ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE that ALL the head bolt holes in the block are 100% free of water/coolant/moisture. CHECK Twice!!! Compressed air doesn't always work to remove it!!!!!!

If there is ANY liquid in the hole, it can and will crack the block when you torque down the head bolts! YEP!

ANY, cylinders that you replace the rings, you should break the glaze on the cylinder walls to seat the rings properly. Make sure that the ring gaps are correct and properly spaced on the piston just prior to reinstall.

If, I were you, I would change the oil pump and timing chain and install a new damper.

Make sure that you clean the pan the block internals and oil pick up screen as well as you can.
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Old May 22, 2013 | 12:53 AM
  #43  
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Its nice seeing someone that isn't afraid to work on the motor with it in the car. Makes me feel so much more normal .
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Old May 22, 2013 | 01:01 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Bill Curlee
My professional recommendations:
DO NOT reuse an old bearing on a different rod!!!!!!!! Install a NEW bearing!! Check the bearing clearances with micrometers or at least plastigage. IF, you use your old rod, you can reinstall the old bearing as long as its in good shape and not scored.

Use the OEM installed rod as that is where most of the weight variation will be balance wise. Your rod cap is a fracture fit so make sure that it goes back together properly and not misaligned.

You have the GM Low tension rings. If you like to run your engine at moderate RPMs 3000,4000 under light loads, you can cause a oil consumption issue. If you drive it normally, I wouldn't worry about it. IF, you don't change the rings, on all the other cylinders, run the same type of rings on #7 at the OEM rings.

Something caused #7 to blow. If you pull and inspect each piston, you can replace the low tension rings and clean the ring lands.

NOTE!!!!!! WARNING!!! When you reinstall your heads, MAKE ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE that ALL the head bolt holes in the block are 100% free of water/coolant/moisture. CHECK Twice!!! Compressed air doesn't always work to remove it!!!!!!

If there is ANY liquid in the hole, it can and will crack the block when you torque down the head bolts! YEP!

ANY, cylinders that you replace the rings, you should break the glaze on the cylinder walls to seat the rings properly. Make sure that the ring gaps are correct and properly spaced on the piston just prior to reinstall.

If, I were you, I would change the oil pump and timing chain and install a new damper.

Make sure that you clean the pan the block internals and oil pick up screen as well as you can.


do this. you're so far into it that replacing your rings with the updated design is just smart and not that much more work.

one question i have bill that would effect the OP is this. when GM was changing out low tension rings the service bulletin said not to rehone but only change the 2nd ring and oil ringset

should the op do this on the other 7 and only ball hone the cylinder getting all 3 new rings, or, should he ball hone all 8 and replace all 3 rings on all 8 pistons?
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Old May 22, 2013 | 01:04 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Birdman
I'm intrigued, could you elaborate?

I've got a used '04 piston complete with rod and bearings. I'll use my existing bearings. I've got new rings coming from NAPA tomorrow sometime.

1) So don't use the rod that is already attached to used piston, but reuse mine? How about bearings?

2) I might be able to borrow a ball hone from someone tomorrow morning..the walls look pretty smooth but why not. I'd try to cover up the crank the best I can or something..

3) What do you mean by dropping the other pistons and installing rings? They all showed fine compression..
as bill stated if you want to reuse your old bearing you have to hang that new-used piston on your old rod {machine shop can do this for $10-15}. in fact you should have it hung anyway. your old rod is balanced to that motor and fit to that bearing.

what i meant with the other cylinders was changing to the updated 02+ rings to prevent future oil burning and extend engine life. pistons that are subject to heavy oil burning get that grime caked in the ringlands and are more likely to light up. i've done it to 2 engines, you just did one yourself. if you clean the other 7 pistons and at least change the bottom two rings you will kill the bottom end oil consumption.

there is a GM service bulletin on your exact car talking about this exact thing

your rings had something like 8-9lbs of tension, possibly less after a decade of running

new 02+ rings have 13lbs of tension on the oil ring. the second ring also has an improved scraper design to aid in consumption reduction

Last edited by racebum; May 22, 2013 at 01:09 AM.
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Old May 22, 2013 | 07:49 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Bill Curlee
My professional recommendations:
DO NOT reuse an old bearing on a different rod!!!!!!!! Install a NEW bearing!! Check the bearing clearances with micrometers or at least plastigage. IF, you use your old rod, you can reinstall the old bearing as long as its in good shape and not scored.

Use the OEM installed rod as that is where most of the weight variation will be balance wise. Your rod cap is a fracture fit so make sure that it goes back together properly and not misaligned.

You have the GM Low tension rings. If you like to run your engine at moderate RPMs 3000,4000 under light loads, you can cause a oil consumption issue. If you drive it normally, I wouldn't worry about it. IF, you don't change the rings, on all the other cylinders, run the same type of rings on #7 at the OEM rings.

Something caused #7 to blow. If you pull and inspect each piston, you can replace the low tension rings and clean the ring lands.

NOTE!!!!!! WARNING!!! When you reinstall your heads, MAKE ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE that ALL the head bolt holes in the block are 100% free of water/coolant/moisture. CHECK Twice!!! Compressed air doesn't always work to remove it!!!!!!

If there is ANY liquid in the hole, it can and will crack the block when you torque down the head bolts! YEP!

ANY, cylinders that you replace the rings, you should break the glaze on the cylinder walls to seat the rings properly. Make sure that the ring gaps are correct and properly spaced on the piston just prior to reinstall.

If, I were you, I would change the oil pump and timing chain and install a new damper.

Make sure that you clean the pan the block internals and oil pick up screen as well as you can.
Alright here's what I've gleaned so far:

1) Reuse my old rods and bearings.
2) What do you mean by the rod cap being misaligned?
3) I don't plan on changing all the rings, but am using OEM rings for the replacement piston. (It's got some but I'm getting new ones from NAPA)
4) I seriously don't have time to pull the other head and inspect every piston and hone every cylinder etc etc etc. I've got till SATURDAY MORNING to get this running again for the guy buying it. He knows everything that's happened and what I'm doing.
5) Aside from compressed air, how can I check those bolt holes for moisture, or get it out?
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Old May 22, 2013 | 09:05 AM
  #47  
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Take the bearing off the rod and look at the machining marks. If you don't put the cap on the correct way it can wipe out the bearing and other stuff. Use a straw and compressed air to help clean and dry the threads and holes. Like others said, it has to be totally clean and dry before reassembly.
GL
Chris
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Old May 22, 2013 | 10:40 AM
  #48  
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The rod cap aligns like this. The tangs you see go together. This is a gen IV LS rod.



GM select fits the bearings to the rod, so use your old ones for sure. Don't mix the halves. And clean them good, back sides as well as the rod needs to be dry. Of course oil the bearing surfaces before assembly. I'd use some sticky assembly lube.

If you can get real GM rings for the Z06, I'd go that way. You should ball hone with 4-600 grit if you can.......there is likely some junk on the bore from the damage to the piston. Inspect it, get us a photo if you can.

Ron
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Old May 22, 2013 | 11:25 AM
  #49  
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Like Ron stated and showed in his picture, the rod cap can ONLY go on correctly ONE WAY! If you mix up the caps or reinstall it in the wrong orientation, you will wipe out the bearing. The parting line is so accurate that you can hardly see it..

As for getting the bolt holes clean, I used compressed air and an AIR CHUCK with a thin metal tube that was able to go ALL THE WAY to the bottom of the hole. Even using 125 lbs of pressure with a tube to the bottom of the hole, TWO holes still had water in the hole!

The ONLY way that I knew that there was water still in the hole was when I was screwing in the head bolt with a small ratchet/socket, it just plain STOPPED going in. Knowing that it SHOULD go in a LOT further and a lot easier, i stopped, backed out the bolt and examined the hole. YEP,,,,,,, it STILL,,,,,, had water in the hole. How the hell did that happen????

I wrapped a paper towel around a long thin screw driver and plunged it to the bottom of every bolt hole. All were clean and dry but TWO.

Moral of the story, Check TWICE, screw up NONE! If I would have switched to the torque wrench and just cranked it in, it would have cracked the bottom of the bolt hole in the valve valley.

I’ve since learned that you can use a air motor with a thin cut off wheel and score one of the old long head bolts, length wise down thru the threads.. Clean it up with a small file, (remove any sharp burs) and run that bolt down each hole to remove any trash /gunk in the threads.

DONT USE A TAP! It will remove thread material! That is BAD as our blocks are well known to strip out the bolt holes easily! Removing thread material makes that failure that much more of a reality!

You can get a purpose made thread clean out tap to do the same job.

For future knowledge, consider upgrading to ARP Head Studs. Once you install a set of heads using the ARP Head Studs Kit fastener system, you will never go back to the torque to yield bolts again!

Make sure that the rod get reinstalled on the piston in the same way it came off! Front side of the rod (as it is now) pointing to the front of the engine so the piston can be installed in the correct direction. Look on the TOP of the pistons. There is a small DOT depression in each one. They ALL need to be in the same direction!

Bill

Last edited by Bill Curlee; May 22, 2013 at 12:44 PM.
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Old May 22, 2013 | 12:21 PM
  #50  
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I just grind 2 flats on an old bolt with the bench grinder. Worked perfect.
Shop vac with a straw taped into the hose worked for the water, followed by long Q-tips just to be sure.
Lots of ways to do it, but they need to be clean and free of water.

Putting the piston in is tricky. Hopefully, the bearing shell in the rod doesn't try to fall out on you. Align the rod to the journal the best you can. Once the piston is in the bore, you can turn it so it hits the journal......have fun!
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Old May 22, 2013 | 03:27 PM
  #51  
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would it not help to just put some markings on the rod its self with say a grease pen or a paint marker prior to taking it free of the crank so that you can make sure that its aligned properly you know.

Plus one of my main concerns that i haven't heard a lot a lot about when doing this kind of stuff is nicking the crank/bore while the rods dangling from the piston while you have the rings compressed and are tapping the piston down into the cylinder. Im sure you have some local parts store around (or even a machine shop) that would maybe have some type of a thing rubber or nylon protective slip on protectors you can use so you nick anything on the way down.

The rings your getting from napa, are they the same as the ones from GM exactly? or are they a "OE replacement" part. and does it matter? I bring this up because with over 5 years at (a very large parts store chain lol) experience with everything from basic counter sales to traveling around training employees at new locations: The parts a lot of times are listed as OE parts, but are far far from it. Now theres been a lot of guys who are more knowledgeable than I as to the reason why you need to use GM rings, but just wanted to make sure that wasn't something that may possibly have been over looked you know.

Man good luck, keep us updated on how its coming.
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Old May 22, 2013 | 03:39 PM
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The rod bolts come out with the cap, but yes, you need to be careful to not bang the rod into the crank journal. Best to have the crank turned to the bottom of the stroke. And use 2 people, one to tap in the piston while the other guides the rod from below.

Like I said it's tricky, esp with the engine in the car.

Last edited by RonSSNova; May 22, 2013 at 06:47 PM.
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Old May 22, 2013 | 04:26 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Birdman
He knows everything that's happened and what I'm doing.
And he still wants it? Unbelievable.
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Old May 22, 2013 | 04:33 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by sperkins
And he still wants it? Unbelievable.
No kidding, a rushed repair job on the cheap? No thanks.
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Old May 22, 2013 | 04:52 PM
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i'm just hoping all 8 rings get changed. a new set could create higher compression in the new hole.

best case it's just a fix that's less than ideal and the car will still be an oil burner
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Old May 22, 2013 | 06:55 PM
  #56  
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I'll throw one more piece of advice to Bill Curlee's post #42.

When installing the O-ring for the oil pump pick-up tube, be sure to lube it well and it's seated well so it doesn't get pinched and sucks air. I'd put a new O-ring in there also.
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Old May 23, 2013 | 12:49 AM
  #57  
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I'm taking off the AIR pump assembly as well. I've already capped the headers and taken it out of the intake (Vararaam). The question is what about the 1/8" (small straw looking) hose on the back of the intake manifold? I think I saw the same straw looking hose going into the AIR pump. Should I just plug that port on the intake manifold?
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To No compression in #7 Cylinder..

Old May 23, 2013 | 12:59 AM
  #58  
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PLUG IT AT THE PUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The manifold line feeds more stuff than just that pump!!!!!!!!!

Its your HVAC control vacuum supply!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BC
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Old May 23, 2013 | 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Curlee
PLUG IT AT THE PUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The manifold line feeds more stuff than just that pump!!!!!!!!!

Its your HVAC control vacuum supply!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BC
No need to yell, Bill.

I don't plan on removing the actual AIR pump itself...should I just leave that line connected to it? But I am correct that it goes to the AIR pump eventually?
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Old May 23, 2013 | 03:11 AM
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Does anyone have a link or know all the bolt torque (ft/in) specifications?
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