Going to upgrade heads this Fall, advice?
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 18,643
Likes: 14
From: Norman Oklahoma - The Only State in the Union with no Blue Counties!
Going to upgrade heads this Fall, advice?
Looking to upgrade to high flow heads.
My 99K LS1 is currently running as follows:
228, 230, 580, 581, 113 LSA Comp Cam
Hardened push rods Texas Speed
Patriot Gold springs and retainers
Dynatech Supermaxx LT Headers
Vararam B2 Cold Air Intake
Corsa Catback.
I know I will need more intake manifold. Not trying to build a beast, just a tad more from my LS1.
LG Motorsports will be doing the job as I don't have the tools.
My question(s) is do I go 205 or 255 on the heads based on my current set up as I do not plan on changing internals I already installled.
Other question, which intake manifold should I upgrade to, LS6, Fast? and why?
Any other recommendations?
Thanks in advance! Kent
My 99K LS1 is currently running as follows:
228, 230, 580, 581, 113 LSA Comp Cam
Hardened push rods Texas Speed
Patriot Gold springs and retainers
Dynatech Supermaxx LT Headers
Vararam B2 Cold Air Intake
Corsa Catback.
I know I will need more intake manifold. Not trying to build a beast, just a tad more from my LS1.
LG Motorsports will be doing the job as I don't have the tools.
My question(s) is do I go 205 or 255 on the heads based on my current set up as I do not plan on changing internals I already installled.
Other question, which intake manifold should I upgrade to, LS6, Fast? and why?
Any other recommendations?
Thanks in advance! Kent
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Kent
You need to add a BUNCH more stuff to your shopping list!
Here are MY recommendations! Most of the stuff is prevent further issues and or improve reliability!
- ARP Head studs!
- ARP Damper Bolt
- LS2 Timing Chain
- NEW LS7 or Cadalic Racing Lifters
- New GM Lifter buckets
- Melling high volume oil pump
- Header STUDS to replace the header bolts
A 2002-2004 manifold / LS6 manifold will work fine but you will leave a some HP /tq on the table.
The FAST 90/92 will work better. I ported mine and it worked SIGNIFICANTLY better. If you go the FAST route, you will need to add the following to ypour shopping list:
- 90mm Throttle body
- LS2 / LS1 ADAPTOR HARNESS
I HAVE Patroit Stage 2 heads with Ti retainers
with all stuff that I listed and Stainless Works heades, I make 450 RWHP
You need to add a BUNCH more stuff to your shopping list!
Here are MY recommendations! Most of the stuff is prevent further issues and or improve reliability!
- ARP Head studs!
- ARP Damper Bolt
- LS2 Timing Chain
- NEW LS7 or Cadalic Racing Lifters
- New GM Lifter buckets
- Melling high volume oil pump
- Header STUDS to replace the header bolts
A 2002-2004 manifold / LS6 manifold will work fine but you will leave a some HP /tq on the table.
The FAST 90/92 will work better. I ported mine and it worked SIGNIFICANTLY better. If you go the FAST route, you will need to add the following to ypour shopping list:
- 90mm Throttle body
- LS2 / LS1 ADAPTOR HARNESS
I HAVE Patroit Stage 2 heads with Ti retainers
with all stuff that I listed and Stainless Works heades, I make 450 RWHP
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 18,643
Likes: 14
From: Norman Oklahoma - The Only State in the Union with no Blue Counties!
Kent
You need to add a BUNCH more stuff to your shopping list!
Here are MY recommendations! Most of the stuff is prevent further issues and or improve reliability!
- ARP Head studs!
- ARP Damper Bolt
- LS2 Timing Chain
- NEW LS7 or Cadalic Racing Lifters
- New GM Lifter buckets
- Melling high volume oil pump
- Header STUDS to replace the header bolts
A 2002-2004 manifold / LS6 manifold will work fine but you will leave a some HP /tq on the table.
The FAST 90/92 will work better. I ported mine and it worked SIGNIFICANTLY better. If you go the FAST route, you will need to add the following to ypour shopping list:
- 90mm Throttle body
- LS2 / LS1 ADAPTOR HARNESS
I HAVE Patroit Stage 2 heads with Ti retainers
with all stuff that I listed and Stainless Works heades, I make 450 RWHP
You need to add a BUNCH more stuff to your shopping list!
Here are MY recommendations! Most of the stuff is prevent further issues and or improve reliability!
- ARP Head studs!
- ARP Damper Bolt
- LS2 Timing Chain
- NEW LS7 or Cadalic Racing Lifters
- New GM Lifter buckets
- Melling high volume oil pump
- Header STUDS to replace the header bolts
A 2002-2004 manifold / LS6 manifold will work fine but you will leave a some HP /tq on the table.
The FAST 90/92 will work better. I ported mine and it worked SIGNIFICANTLY better. If you go the FAST route, you will need to add the following to ypour shopping list:
- 90mm Throttle body
- LS2 / LS1 ADAPTOR HARNESS
I HAVE Patroit Stage 2 heads with Ti retainers
with all stuff that I listed and Stainless Works heades, I make 450 RWHP
Thanks Bill, That is the kind of info I was looking for. I am sure LG will have a similar list. Just trying to learn as much as I can before I commit.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,396
Likes: 52
From: Sicamous BC
I would look seriously @ TF 215's, bolt em on as is.
The FAST 102 intake works very well with out porting as compared to a FAST 90/92 intake with good porting. The down side to the 102 is it will most likely hit the fire wall, which is easily corrected unless your a purist
90mm TB would be perfect with a reducer if you go the FAST 102 way.
Those two changes would give a huge SOTP kick.
The FAST 102 intake works very well with out porting as compared to a FAST 90/92 intake with good porting. The down side to the 102 is it will most likely hit the fire wall, which is easily corrected unless your a purist
90mm TB would be perfect with a reducer if you go the FAST 102 way.
Those two changes would give a huge SOTP kick.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 18,643
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From: Norman Oklahoma - The Only State in the Union with no Blue Counties!
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Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 18,643
Likes: 14
From: Norman Oklahoma - The Only State in the Union with no Blue Counties!
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,060
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From: Pasco WA
A lot depends on your future engine mods, down the road. I did the whole custom TF215s, ported FAST90/90, EWP, #38 injectors/tune, and to the tune of $$$$. Then a couple of years later, I decide to just SC it, and replace the shortblock later, if needed. Then I no longer needed my EWP, FAST setup, and I had the wrong cam for SC. Etc, etc. If you're the type of person that needs way more power than he can use, join the club.
Racer
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 258
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From: Tulsa Oklahoma
Racer
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 394
Likes: 58
From: lancaster MA
Why studs with the headers? If a good gasket material is used and the torque on bolts are checked frequently, why aren't OEM bolts sufficient? Another question: with aluminum heads, are the threads susceptible to being stripped if not torqued properly, that is, not by feel but with a torque measuring device? And, if a torque measuring device is necessary, is there enough clearance to actually use it with the engine in the vehicle?
Last edited by zeke2u; Aug 20, 2013 at 07:24 AM. Reason: incomplete
Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 87,375
Likes: 1,593
From: Western NY
It appears to be a question of convenience. As long as there's enough room to slide the headers back and forth in the engine compartment, to get the flange on/off over the studs, they allow you to hang the gaskets in place, then slide the headers in place, without struggling to get a bolt started while also holding the gaskets, etc, etc.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 18,643
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From: Norman Oklahoma - The Only State in the Union with no Blue Counties!
Got the quote from LG on the heads upgrade:
AFR 210 CNC Ported with all the goodies including gaskets, bolts FAST 92, LS2 TB, 30 # injectors, Labor, tuning, etc. $7,650.
Can't justify that on a 14 year old car. Guess I will just be happy with where she is for now.
AFR 210 CNC Ported with all the goodies including gaskets, bolts FAST 92, LS2 TB, 30 # injectors, Labor, tuning, etc. $7,650.
Can't justify that on a 14 year old car. Guess I will just be happy with where she is for now.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,310
Likes: 99
From: Arlington Texas
Got the quote from LG on the heads upgrade:
AFR 210 CNC Ported with all the goodies including gaskets, bolts FAST 92, LS2 TB, 30 # injectors, Labor, tuning, etc. $7,650.
Can't justify that on a 14 year old car. Guess I will just be happy with where she is for now.
AFR 210 CNC Ported with all the goodies including gaskets, bolts FAST 92, LS2 TB, 30 # injectors, Labor, tuning, etc. $7,650.
Can't justify that on a 14 year old car. Guess I will just be happy with where she is for now.
For example:
Instead of AFR heads go with something like the texas speed 5.3L stage 2.5 heads. The AFR heads are roughly $2400 and the Texas speed are $1300.
Next instead of doing a fast intake do a ls6 intake. Your ls1 intake pretty much just sucks and you will nice gains even from a ls6. The fast setup will require throttle too and the ls6 will not. A fast setup is roughly $1300 vs the ls6 you can find used pretty easily on here or ls1tech for around $350.
Last use a shop that that is not as expensive on labor/tune vs LG and you can save a little more money. Probably around $500 if I was guessing.
A setup like this will probably get you some where around 420 hp to wheels +/- 10 or so hp. The high end setup will make more power but some where in the 450 range +/- 10 or so.
Racer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
Got the quote from LG on the heads upgrade:
AFR 210 CNC Ported with all the goodies including gaskets, bolts FAST 92, LS2 TB, 30 # injectors, Labor, tuning, etc. $7,650.
Can't justify that on a 14 year old car. Guess I will just be happy with where she is for now.
AFR 210 CNC Ported with all the goodies including gaskets, bolts FAST 92, LS2 TB, 30 # injectors, Labor, tuning, etc. $7,650.
Can't justify that on a 14 year old car. Guess I will just be happy with where she is for now.
AI for instance will port a set of cast LS1s for you for a 20-30whp pickup for about $1300 shipped both ways - including springs, retainers, pushrods, and LS7 lifters. Even if you throw a healthy $500 for gaskets/fluids and $300 for a set of injectors, even with $1k in labor costs you're still at $3100 total. With a Fast 92/LS2 TB and a $500 tune you're sitting at $4600 - $3k cheaper than top of the line parts and LG's labor.
To me, it isn't worth spending $1K+ more on high end heads compared to budget options, especially if this is the end of the road modification wise for your car. You'd get more whp from getting the Fast 92/LS2 TB ported instead for half the price.